Troll Lord Games

I've seen this book mentioned several times. I vaguely remember it. Several members here recommend it as a reference.

I already have the old books from the boxed sets, Basic, Expert & Companion. Also the old PHB & DMG from 1978.(first edition??)

So my question is- Am I really missing anything fromnot having this Rules Encyclopedia??

Thanks for your help!

If you have the other books already, no.
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Not much, but it is nice to have all the info in one place with a master index for easy searching. If you can find a copy of the RC for 15-20 bucks I would definitely get it. This is getting harder to do for a decent price and so get it if you can.

Breakdaddy wrote:
Not much, but it is nice to have all the info in one place with a master index for easy searching. If you can find a copy of the RC for 15-20 bucks I would definitely get it. This is getting harder to do for a decent price and so get it if you can.

I forget where I bought it, but I got the PDF version since I already owned the Basic and Expert Sets and didn't feel like paying a lot for the RC.
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I don't know if the RC Weapons Mastery rules appeared anywhere else. That was my favorite part of the book!
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The copies I've seen on Ebay are going for $30-$40 + shipping. I can get both C&C core books for that! A bargain!
Thanks for the help.

Breakdaddy wrote:
If you can find a copy of the RC for 15-20 bucks I would definitely get it. This is getting harder to do for a decent price and so get it if you can.

Good luck getting a decent copy at that price. Semi-beat-up copies have been going on eBay during the last couple weeks for $25-$35. I managed to snag a mint copy yesterday for $40 plus shipping.

Yea, I spent over a year watching ebay auctions. I finally got one in very good condition for $20 plus shipping and was thrilled to get it at that price.

If you do not have the Master set also, you are missing some spells, monsters, class (the Mystic, although it is treated a bit differently in the RC), weapon mastery, siege machine rules. The RC also contains this.

Although you should note, that the RC lacks some things which are present in the combined sets. For example, the tournament rules in the Companion are not present in the RC. Also, the artifacts in the Master rules are not present in the RC.

Let's say that the RC is a useful compendium, but it does not replace wholesale the four boxed sets.

Cheers,

Antonio

I know I have the basic,Expert, & Companion sets. I don't think I have the Masters set. I'll have to check it out. I know I don't have the Immortals box, it just never appealed to me.

BLOOD AXE wrote:
I know I have the basic,Expert, & Companion sets. I don't think I have the Masters set. I'll have to check it out. I know I don't have the Immortals box, it just never appealed to me.

In that case, I'd probably track down the Master's Set -- it would certainly be cheaper than getting a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia (especially if it's only the booklets as opposed to the complete box set).

Don't get me wrong... the RC is a great book but it really depends on how often you think you'll be referring to those D&D rules.

M
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You know, i've never known exactly what the Rules Cyclopedia is and how it fits into everything. This thread has helped.

But, what are the sets: Basic, Expert, Companion & Master? Was all this 1st Ed AD&D? Or was it just D&D (non A-?)?

I have all the standard 1st Ed AD&D books. But i'm intrigued by what i hear here- a new class, monsters, spells, siege rules- all sounds good to me.

-Fizz

Fizz wrote:
You know, i've never known exactly what the Rules Cyclopedia is and how it fits into everything. This thread has helped.

But, what are the sets: Basic, Expert, Companion & Master? Was all this 1st Ed AD&D? Or was it just D&D (non A-?)?

I have all the standard 1st Ed AD&D books. But i'm intrigued by what i hear here- a new class, monsters, spells, siege rules- all sounds good to me.

-Fizz

The sets in question were D&D or ... classic D&D if you will. These sets in particular were the ones done by Frank Mentzer.

Aside from the original 3 booklet version of D&D which was truly the original, in the late 70's, a decision do re-edit some of the material into a Basic set was made. This was edited by Eric Holmes and covered characters up to level 3 and was meant as a Basic lead into AD&D.

With AD&D now being done, a decision to revisit D&D was made and you have the Basic and Expert Sets done by Moldvay and Cook and these gave way to the work that Frank Mentzer did.

Though more similar than not, there are differences between the two systems. I guess in some ways, AD&D was more detailed than D&D was, but at the same time, the D&D sets (in particular the ones that Mentzer did) were easier to get into and started.

M
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http://www.arcanacreations.com

Just to add... and clarify... you might have already been aware of some of the history but, I figured a very quick rundown wouldn't hurt for those who weren't aware.

To address some of your other points in greater detail.

D&D and its classes -- I've never taken a look at the Mystic but keep in mind that D&D has fewer classes than D&D. Demihumans such as Elves, Halflings, and Dwarves are actually classes themselves. If you make human, you could be a Fighter/Cleric/Magic-User/Thief. The Mystic and Druid are considered Optional classes. Naturally it also handled a couple of other things slightly different.

The charm of Mentzer's BECMI box sets for D&D is the focus of the sets.

The Basic and Expert set presented material to support characters up to something like 14th level and really was more focused on the life of the adventurer.

The Companion set presented material beyond those but the focus changed by including rules that are larger in scope in terms of a campaign. Owning land... building strongholds... Mass Combat (in the form of the Warmachine system), collecting taxes and costs of various bits up upkeep... and so on...

The Masters set presented material permitting characters to go even higher level but at this stage of the game, we're talking about possible paths to ascension, a bit more about the powers that shape (or break creation), and artifacts.

Basic through Master covers levels 1 through 26

The Immortals set was intended to continue a campaign once characters have ascended to Immortality / Godhood. This rule set was *not* touched in the Rules Cyclopedia. Instead a revamped Box Set was released as a companion to the RC.

If you are curious, then I'd probably just get the PDF version of the RC ... at 4 or 5 dollars, you can't really go wrong.

Hope this and the previous post answers your questions!

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

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http://www.arcanacreations.com

There are a very few pages in the RC about Immortals, but nothing like in the original box set, nor is the later release Wrath of the Immortals like the predecessor, as it was intended to be an "apocalypse adventure" and destroy Mystara (the Known World; ie, the default setting presumed by Mentzer BXCMI) and reshape it, as had earlier been done to Greyhawk (and the subsequent production of From the Ashes.)

serleran wrote:
There are a very few pages in the RC about Immortals, but nothing like in the original box set, nor is the later release Wrath of the Immortals like the predecessor, as it was intended to be an "apocalypse adventure" and destroy Mystara (the Known World; ie, the default setting presumed by Mentzer BXCMI) and reshape it, as had earlier been done to Greyhawk (and the subsequent production of From the Ashes.)

Cool... thanks for the clarification! The Wrath of the Immortals was not something I was ever interested in... and now... even less!
I have the booklets from the original Immortal set. I love looking through it but the odds I'll use it are extremely slim. Great stuff though!

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

There are some neat things in WotI, but that is mainly the rules for artifact creation and Immortal-level magic (spells like Create Species.) Fortunately, that is one of the two books in the box set - the other is the adventure itself. I have a spare copy of just that book, but its not in pristine condition.

serleran wrote:
There are some neat things in WotI, but that is mainly the rules for artifact creation and Immortal-level magic (spells like Create Species.) Fortunately, that is one of the two books in the box set - the other is the adventure itself. I have a spare copy of just that book, but its not in pristine condition.

Damn it Serl... now I'm curious!
What's the page count of the rules booklet?

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

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http://www.arcanacreations.com

Book One: Codex of the Immortals (the rule book) is 128 pages.

Man, for the reasons Serl mentions, Wrath of the Immortals is awesome. Plus, it's the only printed source that I know of that lists many (if not all) of the Immortals of the Known World / Mystara. Sweet box set, but a tad pricey.

-O
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moriarty777 wrote:
Basic through Master covers levels 1 through 26

M

36
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

Really what you are missing is the black box Master Rules which contain (imo) the best rules option for the classic D&D game, weapon mastery.
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

CharlieRock wrote:
36

DOH!

That was a typo!

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Actually, WotI completely rewrites and reinterprets the Immortals as originally set out by Frank Mentzer. And in some way, it cheapens them, too. The Immortal Set by Frank is really a game unto itself, and is so full of thought provoking ideas; WotI pales in comparison.

Also, WotI introduces the concept of Immortals as Gods. Such view was completely absent in the Mentzer D&D.

Finally, the Immortals Set introduces the Known World campaign as our own Earth during the Age of Magic, which makes things quite intriguing. For example, I have thought of placing R'lyeh in my D&D campaign