True20 vs. C&C

adaen · Post by **adaen** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:54 am

Dragonhelm wrote:
slimykuotoan wrote:
Cease and all activities

(Though I have to admit to liking elements of True20 as well.)

Now there's a potential new thread (that may have been done in the past, but hey)....True20 vs C&C....what's the dealio?

~AoB
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danbuter · Post by **danbuter** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:18 am

They are very different games, at least in terms of feel. I prefer CnC myself. True20 is kinda like Gurpsd20 or Herod20.
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Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:59 am

adaen wrote:
Dragonhelm wrote:
Now there's a potential new thread (that may have been done in the past, but hey)....True20 vs C&C....what's the dealio?

~AoB

I own True20 but never played it. I picked it up about a year before I found out about C&C. I thought that True20 was going to be the system for me for my fantasy gaming fix. I just couldn't get myself to like it. Now don't get me wrong. It's very complete and obviously has been thought out and well implemented but I really dislike D20 and True20 feels too much like it. It's just a taste thing.

What I like most about True20 is the wound system. Strangely enough being a C&C fan, I'm not a big fan of the hit point system that we all know and a lot of us love.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:02 am

What I like about True 20 is using feats to build the character class you want.

I think it works really well, its just C&C is the system I prefer. However the True20 character creation rules are a good basis to use for building classes for C&C with feats as the class powers and abilities.
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Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:09 am

True20 and C&C feel very different. C&C is AD&D with streamlined game mechanics. True20 doesn't look like D&D anymore, and the system works for many genres, not just fantasy. For example, True20 would be perfect to do an Earthsea campaign, where AD&D/C&C wouldn't fit IMO; then True20 is also very good for western, post-apocalyptic, modern, sci-fi, etc. If I wanted to play a Shadworun inspired world, I would use True20. In fact, I would say that AD&D/C&C is its own genre, where True20 has no genre and can fit any.
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BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:14 am

I also have both, and I can tell you that C&C is the only one I have ever played-- and played many times!
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:32 pm

danbuter wrote:
They are very different games, at least in terms of feel. I prefer CnC myself. True20 is kinda like Gurpsd20 or Herod20.

I would've grouped True20 closer to the Tri-Stat version of d20 (like, BESM d20) then to GURPS or HERO systems (though I am only familiar with the GURPS games). It's trying to be rules light, while maintaining the d20 feel.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 pm

If C&C is what D&D (or a 3rd Edition of AD&D) should have been, then I equally submit that True20 is what the d20 System should have been!

Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with the True20 system. In my mind it corrects or addresses certain issues evident in 3.x -- and the best option or hope for all those 3.x fans that want to remain with that rule set after 4th ed is released.

M
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skathros · Post by **skathros** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:04 pm

I own both. I think T20 does a better job at doing d20 than 3E does. It's more streamlined and divorces itself from a lot of AD&Disms. I doubt anyone would look at T20 and think "old school".

For me, C&C is a much better fit for the type of gaming I prefer. It retains enough of the old school D&D elements that I love and am not ready to part with, all the while incorperating 3Eisms that I actually like.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:19 pm

I'm not a fan of systems like True20 or GURPS because as a player you have to know many of the implications of feats, abilities, etc. With C&C, you decide what type of character you want to be, and the system gives you the best abilities to go with being the chosen class/profession. Many think that games like C&C limit character customization, but this can be roleplayed through. In that case, introducing a truncated list of feats or skills can make the game seem more customizible.

-O
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Dragonhelm · Post by **Dragonhelm** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:09 pm

True20 is perhaps one of the best customizable systems I've seen. I'm a big fan of how it simplifies 3e's feats. Much, much better. I like that the right feat choice can lead to any number of character types.

What I don't like about it is that it doesn't come equipped with archetypes. Sometimes, I base the character I want to play on an archetype. Also, it is a good d20 system, but it doesn't have some of the D&D'isms. For example, I wish it had hit points and armor class.

Now, if True20 and C&C would somehow merge, I think I'd have my perfect system. Hrm...
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:43 pm

I was into True20 (I started the True20 Yahoogroup that gains members constantly) but the game just didn't click with the players or myself. Now Mutants & Masterminds 2, that stuck, and can be used with any genre, including fantasy.
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Breakdaddy · Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:20 pm

At one point I was going to use True20 for my modern gaming and maybe sci fi gaming. Unfortunately for the otherwise excellent True20, I found Savage Worlds and never looked back. For sci fi I now have Dark Heresy which is awesome cubed. And if I were to ever take a hiatus from C&C it would be to rejuvenate my WFRP2 game.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:44 pm

Omote wrote:
I'm not a fan of systems like True20 or GURPS because as a player you have to know many of the implications of feats, abilities, etc. With C&C, you decide what type of character you want to be, and the system gives you the best abilities to go with being the chosen class/profession. Many think that games like C&C limit character customization, but this can be roleplayed through. In that case, introducing a truncated list of feats or skills can make the game seem more customizible.

-O

huh?

In GURPS the abilities are described quite clearly what's going to happen. If you pick Crippling Aquaphobia your going to curl up in a ball whenever you see the ocean. If you pick it and your playing in Dune then the GM modifies it and gives you (far) less points back. Or, if your playing Blue Planet you may end up with getting more points for it. Lots more. Either way you can see the effect on your character a mile away.

I don't think I'm understanding what your meaning there.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:41 pm

What I meant is that characters are summed up as collections of ability choices, rather then archtypical characters where your choices are, essentially, selected for you. It is hard(er) in these systems to create characters because the characters are often a sum of broad choices rather then a "static" group of statistics based on archtype.

Though this discussion is actually kind of against the point of the topic. So sorry for skewing.

-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:48 pm

Omote wrote:
What I meant is that characters are summed up as collections of ability choices, rather then archtypical characters where your choices are, essentially, selected for you. It is hard(er) in these systems to create characters because the characters are often a sum of broad choices rather then a "static" group of statistics based on archtype.

Though this discussion is actually kind of against the point of the topic. So sorry for skewing.

-O

Oh ...

I got over that bit with practice. Takes me like ten minutes to make a 150pt character in GURPS (TL3 or 4).

Edit: Obviously I'm inclined to agree overall since I am posting here and not in SJGames forums, LoL
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:07 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
I got over that bit with practice. Takes me like ten minutes to make a 150pt character in GURPS (TL3 or 4)

Exactly a point I often try to make regarding these types of games. It does take practice to make a character, which often hurts new players to a game and is more often then not, not intuitive.

-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:13 pm

Omote wrote:
Exactly a point I often try to make regarding these types of games. It does take practice to make a character, which often hurts new players to a game and is more often then not, not intuitive.

-O

Well, I played a messload of Man to Man before I did a GURPS campaign. That'll run you through a lot of characters quickly. (It's basically a gladiator-type wargame using GURPS combat system).

I've only seen adventures for the T20 system. It looked an awful lot like regular false20/d20. You could tell there were still some fundamental differences (which was why I made the comment that it was closer to BESM d20 or SilverAge Sentinels d20 then GURPS or HERO).
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:36 am

I tried T20 but I did not like it for the same reason I do not like 3.x, and which Omote neatly explained.

I have recently found that WFRP2e may be the best choice for people who like a flexible system, but do not like to waste time just in coming with a character concept. The skills and talents give flexibility without needless complexity, both in character creation and in play. A brilliant design!

Just for fun I started creating characters, and it never took more than 10-15 minutes. Try doing the same with d20 or 3.x!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:26 pm

Indeed, WFRP2 is a fun system to create characters for. I've found myself spending a few hours just creating a mess of characters for that system as well.
-O
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Brutorz Bill · Post by **Brutorz Bill** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:40 pm

I've tried True20, but have found C&C to be more suitable for myself and my groups style of gaming/playing. True20 was just too close to 3.X for me.

Sorry, I'm just burned out on 3.X

Bill

Troll Lord Games

True20 vs. C&C

True20 vs. C&C

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