Troll Lord Games

I really enjoyed morale in AD&D.

That said, anyone have a system for C&C?

No dice rolls or anything, for monsters morale, I normally make a judgement call, based on certain factors.
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I do it like Maliki, but if you're looking to port on over, the one from BD&D is very simple (IIRC).

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

Don't use morale rules per se, but for my players I roll dice every once in a while to make them think there is some system involved. As CK, if the baddies get beat up, sometimes they will run away. Monsters I think are extremely feral, unitelligent of psychopathic just never give up.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Yes.

But, only because some people like having a system to rely on.

slimykuotoan wrote:
I really enjoyed morale in AD&D.

That said, anyone have a system for C&C?

I haven't used one but, if the creature is intelligent and is in danger of falling to the PCs, you could have that creature make a CHR save versus fear.

The challenge base could be modified by the degree of smack-down being brought down upon it.

Maliki wrote:
No dice rolls or anything, for monsters morale, I normally make a judgement call, based on certain factors.

This is what I do.

There's actually very few opponents that the PCs have faced which do not have a "morale check", those would be automatons and creatures that have nothing to lose, of which there are very few.

For most, when the fight goes against them, their flight instinct takes over and they attempt to get the heck away from the PCs. They don't always get away, if the opponent can be reformed the PCs attempt to disable/capture, if reform is not an option, the PCs aren't above shooting the opponent in the back.

The foes the PCs stand against do not run if they have the upper hand, at those times, the PCs must run or face dire consequences of losing everything.
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I like the moral rules in the old D&D Rules Cyclopedia.
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Rigon wrote:
I do it like Maliki, but if you're looking to port on over, the one from BD&D is very simple (IIRC).

R-

They were. And they're identical to the one in Rules Cyclopedia.

You make a morale check when

*your side gets it's first injury

*your side gets it's first death

*half your side is incap'd

*(for bigger monsters that worked solo) at 1/4 HP

*despair effect from a weapon master
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The Rock says ...

Know your roll!

I just make a mental note of how many losses an opponent is willing to take/how intelligent it is in the first place. For instance the entry for gnolls states they will flee after half of them are killed.

Here's some draft morale rules I came up with the other week to answer just this issue. The odds of this system work out about the same as the tables in AD&D. The next step is generating a series of morale tables that give bonuses and penalties that add up to equal the below modifiers.
Loyalty & Morale Checks

A creature is required to check morale or loyalty when placed into a very stressful situation. If offered a bribe, a guard may look the other way. If outnumbered and losing badly, a monster may flee. Player characters never need to check morale unless under some sort of supernatural influence.

Generally morale checks in combat are made when:

- 25% of party eliminated or slain or individual taking this much damage (Check at -1)

- Leader unconscious (Check at -2)

- 50% of party eliminated or slain or individual taking this much damage (Check at -3)

- Leader slain or deserts (Check at -6)

- Faced by obviously superior force (Check each round at worst penalty)
Common Modifiers

A morale check starts as a save vs. fear. Thus characters with strong charisma saves and many hit dice have high base morale. The character or monster may also add their morale rating. The challenge class is equal to the HD of the most immediate or threatening foe, with usual modifiers for numbers or other circumstances. The save is modified by many conditional factors however. If using this system, the lieges CHA modifier should be added to morale, with an additional +2 if CHA is prime. The CK will provide a complete list of factors if needed. Here are some approximate morale scores:

Fanatics: +25 Trained dwarf serving generous priest of Clangeddin, paladins warhorse

Elites: +20 Typical henchmen under responsible lieges, officers

Veterans: +15 Experienced mercenary NCOs

Regulars: +10 Typical orc raiders, mercenaries, war trained animals

Green: +5 Newly recruited militia

Rabble: +0 Peasant levies, domesticated animals
Results

A passed check indicates that the creature in question holds firm.

A failed check indicates that morale wavers in some way. Perhaps the creature falls back fighting or makes a tactical withdrawal, or the guard doesnt alert his sergeant (but doesnt allow free run of the palace!)

A Dramatic Failure indicates that morale has failed. Monsters will flee in panic or surrender, the guard might hand over the key.
Rallying

A creature usually rallies once it has removed itself from the source of its fear. Alternatively, an inspiring leader can try to turn rout into victory. He does so by making a Charisma Check against the HD of the most intimidating foe. If successful, nearby followers are heartened and improve one step: Routed Waver  Firm. However, a dramatic failure on a rally check increases the panic by one step!

Here's an addendum to work Charisma in there a bit more. This has the side effect of making one's CHA score (not the Prime) more relevant as well.


Morale & Retainers

You may recruit loyal followers (henchmen) equal to your BTH bonus plus CHA modifier, +2 (if CHA is prime). These followers usually must be paid and equipped as normal, but if treated well their morale will be quite good and they will generally be faithful and brave, within reason. Additional servitors or followers beyond this limit are of fair to poor morale.
Examples: A second level knight with +2 CHA and CHA prime can acquire 5 loyal followers. He designates his warhorse, a war dog, a squire, a linkboy, and a herald as his loyal followers. Meanwhile, the surly wizard with -2 CHA will not be able to attain any loyal followers until he achieves high levels then perhaps he will hire Igor to guard his tower! Were the wizard to hire a man-at-arms into service as a bodyguard at lower levels, the warrior would have fair morale only hes only in it for the money, not because he believes in the wizard or the mages cause. Likewise, the wizards horse would be likely to bolt if wounded.

Additionally, all servitors of a character gain a bonus equal to the lieges CHA modifier +2 if CHA is prime on all morale saves if morale rules are utilized.

Using this system I'd give all Henchmen types either a base morale of +20, or a flat +10 bonus. This would turn a typical mercenary warrior into a loyal elite, or an ordinary cow (Jack and the Beanstalk anyone?) into an animal as brave as a warhorse.

CharlieRock wrote:
They were. And they're identical to the one in Rules Cyclopedia.

You make a morale check when

*your side gets it's first injury

*your side gets it's first death

*half your side is incap'd

*(for bigger monsters that worked solo) at 1/4 HP

*despair effect from a weapon master

I'm not saying I use it or any other system for moral. I just decide if the bad guys would want to run away and if I think they would, then they do. Simple, yet effective.

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

I'd also throw in my support for the Mentzer Morale Check Rule. Only problem is that you have to assign a morale to each enemy. Still, doesn't quite have that SEIGE feel to it, but it works.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

csperkins1970 wrote:
I haven't used one but, if the creature is intelligent and is in danger of falling to the PCs, you could have that creature make a CHR save versus fear.

The challenge base could be modified by the degree of smack-down being brought down upon it.

The problem with a fear save is the extremely low chance of success. For example a typical 1 HD orc will only save 15% of the time vs. a 1st level PC.

Hence the need to add large modifiers (as described in my post above) to make the probablities of the SIEGE check work out.

Maybe morale checks should only be made when defeat appears to be inevitable... (?)

I like the idea of using the SIEGE engine for such checks but see what you mean about the difficulty of succeeding at such checks.

To offset some of the difficulty in making Attribute Checks I use a Challenge Base of 15, with Primes adding 5 to the relevant check. Just as it would help PCs, it would make Morale Checks less onerous for monsters and NPCs.

The only modifier I would apply to the Morale Check (if Morale Checks were only made when things looked REALLY grim) would be a penalty or bonus equal to the average Hit Dice or Levels of creatures making the check minus the average level of the PCs.

Seems to me that one could just use the noted Charisma check method that comes with the descriptive text of Fear and Scare spells and the like.

Shouldn't be too much a burden to work out various modifiers based on group HD and so forth.
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