Am I in over my head?

[dtougas]

Hello Everyone,

I am a complete newbie to C&C. I played D&D a little in high school, but that was many years ago and I have forgotten many things.

I just purchased the C&C boxed set with the hopes that I might be able to pull together something interesting for my wife and kids. After reading through the books, I find myself with a lot of questions. It appears (at least from my perspective) that the books assume that you have a certain amount of experience already, and that someone couldn't just read everything and be able to DM an adventure for the family. Maybe I should have bought something else?

What I need is just more basic info, newbie stuff that everyone else would just take for granted. Things like:

- How do you calculate the number of HP for a character? I see references to the Hd, but how many times do I roll? Once for each level? Are there any modifiers applied. I am sorry if this sounds like a stupid question
- How does a CK handle the concepts of time? How do you decide how long a day is? If a wizard needs 8 hrs sleep and has to spend 1 hr preparing his 4 spells, how does one typically fit that into the game? Is this largely just the discretion of the CK? Anyone have any good advice?

- I probably have lots more questions, I just can't think of them right now.

Anyways, my thoughts are that if TLG wants this stuff to appeal to be attractive to new gamers, there should be some more basic materials available so that people with little or no prior experience would be able to start something. Maybe other resources exist somewhere that you guys could point me to?

Thanks for listening!

[serleran]

Starting hit points are based on the die type you have for class, plus your Constitution modifier. This means, you roll your HD type (d4, d6, d8, so forth) and then add your Constitution modifier (not the Constitution score itself.) This is done one time, and with one die of the appropriate type. If you advance a level, you typically gain another HD, so you do the same thing as you did the first time.

Time is subjective. The only amount of time that is tracked in the rulebooks are combat rounds (and thereby, turns)... everything else is up to the CK. If the CK decides that a wizard doesn't have the 8 hours sleep (perhaps because he said he was going to stay up all night, or there was a random encounter halfway through the sleep) then he doesn't get it. If you want to be very anal about it, you could determine the number of turns in a day, and tick them off one by one, but, you have to remember there would be something like 1440 of them....

[dtougas]

serleran wrote:
Starting hit points are based on the die type you have for class, plus your Constitution modifier. This means, you roll your HD type (d4, d6, d8, so forth) and then add your Constitution modifier (not the Constitution score itself.) This is done one time, and with one die of the appropriate type. If you advance a level, you typically gain another HD, so you do the same thing as you did the first time.

So you add the Constitution modifier to your die roll every time you advance a level?

[slimykuotoan]

I don't own the boxed set, but it doesn't include this stuff?

I can see how it would be tough if it didn't.

Also, your best bet is to CK an existing adventure, and free ones are in the downloads troll Lords section I believe.

Enon Tor is a good place to begin.

[Omote]

Up to a certain level, that is correct.

-O
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[moriarty777]

slimykuotoan wrote:
I don't own the boxed set, but it doesn't include this stuff?

I can see how it would be tough if it didn't.

Also, your best bet is to CK an existing adventure, and free ones are in the downloads troll Lords section I believe.

Enon Tor is a good place to begin.

It does, on page 4 of the Player's Handbook (Volume 1 of Three Booklets), under 'Table 2' titled 'Class Description Terminology':

Quote:
Hit Dice (HD): The dice type rolled for hit points at each level. The constitution bonus is added to this.

However, it the rule set as written is very concise and only covers 36 pages (which includes the OGL). Easy to miss if you're not careful.

M
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[moriarty777]

I should also hasten to add that if you have any questions... feel free to ask away. I don't think you made a bad choice by buying the box set but the full Player's Handbook is far more details but also has more classes and races which may not always be the most desirable thing.

To be honest, I relish to answer certain questions within the context of the Collector's Box Set. I started with the standard PHB and M&T books but ended up getting the Collector's Set after the fact for my own nostalgic reasons and as a collector.

M
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[dtougas]

Ok, I did see that one-liner on page 4 regarding hit dice. I guess I was at least expecting a short paragraph or something like that on the subject of hit points, since that is what was done for much of the other character generation parts.

Overall, I am very excited about the game, and I am finding the rules easy enough to grasp. I will probably have lots of other questions as I get going. Thanks for the help!

[moriarty777]

dtougas wrote:
Ok, I did see that one-liner on page 4 regarding hit dice. I guess I was at least expecting a short paragraph or something like that on the subject of hit points, since that is what was done for much of the other character generation parts.

Overall, I am very excited about the game, and I am finding the rules easy enough to grasp. I will probably have lots of other questions as I get going. Thanks for the help!

Ya... it's a fascinating little set but throughout it you'll no more than a sentence explaining certain concepts. I think that's part of the reason why I fondly look through the set from time to time. Welcome to the Crusade!

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

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[serleran]

Ask away. Whatever questions will get answered, one way or the other.

[gideon_thorne]

http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/ccqs.html There's a bit more information here.

But you are correct in assuming that the basic set is designed for people who have a fair bit of experience in gaming. The white box was more a collectors introductory item.

The complete game is found in the C&C Players HandBook and Monsters and Treasure hard backs.
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Peter Bradley

[dtougas]

I called TLG up last week asking them about when the basic set might be out because it looked like what I wanted. The person on the phone said they weren't sure when it would be out, but pointed me at the box set instead so that is what I bought. I am beginning to realize that perhaps a better route may have been to get the PHB and M&T instead. Oh well, I will probably be just fine with what I have, I just may have to ask a few more questions as I go...

[slimykuotoan]

That's what's so great about the internet:

Customers can asks questions and provide feedback so that everyone benefits.

We're here for ya dtougas!

P.S. I just wrangled a dude into the C&C fold over the net, and he was asking what he should start with in terms of boxed sets.

I'm guessing the white box's the way to go for a newbe?

Mmm...more players to munch upon...

[Treebore]

Welcome to the Crusade! We'll be happy to help however you need.
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[Tadhg]

Howdy dtougas and welcome.

I too was away from gaming for some years and picked up the C&C Collector's Box Set to get started anew. Having been birthed in BD&D, it was a little different and the rules were somewhat changed, but I would say, read it again and you should get a better feel for C&C.

Actually, I think I read it once. And then when the time came for our group to run it, I read again to be sure I was ready. But of course, I still had to refer to the rules a few more times.

So give it another read, and as you can see, so many peeps here are ready to assist you or answer questions and give advice.

You'll be OK - start 'em in The Rising Knight!!!

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[dtougas]

After reading through the PHB in my boxed set, I have more questions:

- How many cp in a sp, sp in a gp, etc? Are they just multiples of 10?

- If a player buys a dog, can the dog attack and do any kind of damage? What are the HP, movement, etc? There are dogs listed in the Rising Knight but they are more expensive and thus perhaps different?

- Can a wizard memorize a spell more than once so that he can use it more than once in a day?

- Do Wizards just automatically have a spellbook, or do they buy it somewhere (I didn't see it listed in the equipment list)? Or do they make it out of parchment, quill, and ink?

- How far can lanterns/torches see in the dark?

- Are darts expendable like arrows and bolts, or can you pick them out of your victim after they have been thrown? Should a person just carry a couple, or a whole bunch like arrows?

Thats all I can think of for now... sorry if the questions seem really basic, it's just where I am at right now!

Thanks

[Harry Joy]

dtougas wrote:
- If a player buys a dog, can the dog attack and do any kind of damage? What are the HP, movement, etc? There are dogs listed in the Rising Knight but they are more expensive and thus perhaps different?

- Can a wizard memorize a spell more than once so that he can use it more than once in a day?

- Do Wizards just automatically have a spellbook, or do they buy it somewhere (I didn't see it listed in the equipment list)? Or do they make it out of parchment, quill, and ink?...

Thanks

I can partially answer these three. Yes.

Re: Dogs. They must be trained, which either takes time, or makes them more expensive. Take your pick. They don't do much damage, not enough to worry much about, but they make great guards and can harry bad guys.

Re: Learning multiples of spells. Yes. But really, if you use a spell that much you are better off getting a wand or other magical equivalent and free up some slots.

Re: Spellbooks - CKs call, but no CK I've played for would make it difficult for a starter spell book. Current character got his as a reward for surviving a dice-rolled background.

[Jonathan of White Haven]

dtougas wrote:
After reading through the PHB in my boxed set, I have more questions:

- How many cp in a sp, sp in a gp, etc? Are they just multiples of 10?

- If a player buys a dog, can the dog attack and do any kind of damage? What are the HP, movement, etc? There are dogs listed in the Rising Knight but they are more expensive and thus perhaps different?

- Can a wizard memorize a spell more than once so that he can use it more than once in a day?

- Do Wizards just automatically have a spellbook, or do they buy it somewhere (I didn't see it listed in the equipment list)? Or do they make it out of parchment, quill, and ink?

- How far can lanterns/torches see in the dark?

- Are darts expendable like arrows and bolts, or can you pick them out of your victim after they have been thrown? Should a person just carry a couple, or a whole bunch like arrows?

Thats all I can think of for now... sorry if the questions seem really basic, it's just where I am at right now!

Thanks

Harry caught the first three, though I'm more than willing to toss in my US$.02...
Money: 1 Platinum = 10 Gold. 1 Gold = 10 Silver. 1 Silver = 10 Copper.

Dogs: Back in the day when I was first playing 1E, "war dogs" were rather popular in a couple of campaigns I played in. They tended to be expensive, and didn't last long against more powerful opponents. But they were handy for whittling down the opposition's HPs.

Spellbooks: As Harry said, it's up to the CK. Wizards should begin the game with at least one "traveling spellbook", which are quarto-sized (Google "quarto", but it's roughly 9" x 6", approximately digest-sized). Depending on how the CK runs spell acquisition, the wizard may have more than one traveling spellbook at 1st level. After that, s/he will have to 1.) purchase the materials and construct other books, 2.) purchase the books from a magic emporium or guild, or 3.) not even worry about it if the CK isn't going into that much detail.

Once the wizard has a safe haven to live in, s/he can acquire one or more permanent "regular" spellbooks, which tend to be the size of unabridged dictionaries. Again, construction, acquisition, and maintainance of regular spellbooks is up to the CK.

Lantern/Torch effective distance: IIRC, they're good for 40'. Effective illumination distance could be as little as 20", though. And, exposure to light screws up darkvision (requires one full turn for darkvision to be effective again.) Imaginative players can be good at fabricating "torch holders" for their PCs' shields...

Missiles: Darts, arrows, and bolts can usually be retrieved from dead bodies. Sling bullets are usually considered to be lost, as they don't normally penetrate, but do bludgeoning damage and bounce off the targeet. Missiles that miss their targets are lost. Magically enhanced missiles are considered to be destroyed, whether they hit or miss their targets. Note: All of this, again, is up to the CK.

My opinions as a CK: I find that keeping close track of such things like the cost of spellbooks and the amount of missile ammo that PCs have is nicky-nacky and simply makes for more "bookwork". I don't bother my players with that kind of dreck. I do require them to keep track of magically enhanced ammo, though. The same thing goes for physical spell components.

In other words, I don't sweat the small stuff.

I really do recommend getting the hardback PHB and M&T.

Hope I was of some help to you, and welcome to The Crusade!
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[adaen]

slimykuotoan wrote:
-snip-

Enon Tor is a good place to begin.

Is this still available as a download?
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[Omote]

adaen wrote:
Is this still available as a download?

http://tower.newcenturycomputers.net/temp/beacon.pdf

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
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[adaen]

Thank you, Thank you.
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[papercut]

Have you started playing with your kids yet? Just start playing and don't worry about the minutiae of the rules until it is important. You can decide on anything that comes up (and change it later on if need be).

Your kids are gonna love it. All those dice, the freedom, the monsters, they are gonna have a blast! The cool thing about the Siege Engine is that it lets players so anything they can think of painlessly (that is the key point). After trolling thru the boards it seems like there are a few modules that are good intros for not just the players, but rookie CKs as well. You can download some, and buy a few from Paizo for $4. They include:

The Beacon at Enon Tor-Really basic module

A Lion in the Ropes

A Rising Knight

The Keep on the Borderlands*

Night's Dark Terror*

*OD&D, but simple to convert (19-DnD AC for CnC AC, Saves F,T,D,H=Physical; E,C,W= Mental. For example F3= Physical Prime +3, W5= Mental Prime +5)

Let us know how it goes!
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[bighara]

oo! Another vote for B2 & B10. My favorite classic modules!
If you need a little more explanation and don't want to buy a bunch of other books, you might consider the Condensed Player's Handbook PDF. It has almost all the same GM advice, etc. that the full PHB has, and it's a little cheaper than the hard copy. ($12.95 v. $19.95). The hard copy is totally worth it, though. The big advantage of the condensed PHB is getting it right away via download. I own the box set, 2 PHBs, and M&T in hard copy. But I love having the Cond_PHB & M/T on pdf to refer to from my computer.

For normal dogs, I'd just assume something mid-sized (40-50# or so), 1d8HD, Move of 40', Bite for 1d4, AC 14 and let them track by Scent. (+2 or so on rolls to follow a scent trail). A normal dog (non-attack trained) will run if hurt unless defending its young, its mate, or a master with which it has had time to bond.

[dtougas]

We just started with Rising Knight that came with the boxed set. So far the kids seem to like it, but I myself am a little insecure in my abilities to be a good CK. It has been many, many years since I played any sort of RPG and I never played the part of a DM. I want to keep it interesting for them, I want their interactions with the NPCs to be realistic, I want to make sure the pace does not bore them (especially at the beginning where they are trying to figure out where they need to go)... I wish I had more experience to draw upon!

Is there a dummies guide somewhere that might help a newbie DM/CK in learning the craft?

[Omote]

Best way to learn to be a better CK... practice, practice, practice!

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[bighara]

dtougas wrote:
We just started with Rising Knight that came with the boxed set. So far the kids seem to like it, but I myself am a little insecure in my abilities to be a good CK. It has been many, many years since I played any sort of RPG and I never played the part of a DM. I want to keep it interesting for them, I want their interactions with the NPCs to be realistic, I want to make sure the pace does not bore them (especially at the beginning where they are trying to figure out where they need to go)... I wish I had more experience to draw upon!

Is there a dummies guide somewhere that might help a newbie DM/CK in learning the craft?

Omote is right about practice. If you seriously want a guide to GM-ing, I'd have to recommend "Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering" published by Steve Jackson Games. But I can give you the basic philosophy of the book here:
The purpose of the game is to have fun. Different players have different reasons for gaming. Figure out what each player and your group as a whole sees as fun and try to incorporate that into your games.

That's it, basically. There is oodles of good advice in the book as well.

Here are a few tips from my games re: pacing:

*Have a couple simple "drop-in" encounters prepped. It can be an interesting NPC, or some monsters/bad guys. If stuff starts to drag and the party is far from the next planned encounter, toss one in. Try to have it make some kind of sense within the adventure's context (No frost worms popping out of the desert sand, etc.). On that tangent, keep a list of NPC names ready to use when they meet folks. That way when they ask "What's the barmaid's name?" You can just look at your list of unused female names and say "Gertrude." (or whatever). Make a note next to the name Gertrude that she is the barmaid at the Gaudy Griffon Inn. So next time the PCs are there, you can say "Gertrude seems worried about something," and adventure hooks ensue.
*If you hit a rules snag in a combat or other fast-paced situation, ask yourself these two questions: "What would make sense?" and "What would be fun?" Make your ruling based on these answers and move on. You can look it up later. Cracking a rule book mid-combat is usually not worth it. It kills the pace. Your players should understand you will try to be fair, but if you make an ad hoc ruling and move on, that's it. If you were wrong, well, you'll try to remember it for next time. If someone else knows the rule, don't be shy about taking their advice. i.e. Many's the time where I'll just take the Wizard's player's word on a given spell's effect (it's his character casting it and I can't keep them all in my head).

*Let your players try crazy stuff sometimes. If they feel like they are in a game where they can try something that isn't fully covered in the rules, they'll get more involved and be more creative. Compare the following two statements:

Quote:
"Man, that was a great 19 you rolled. And max damage too!"

"Wow, that was great when you jumped off the balcony and swung off the chandelier! Especially when you landed right on the orc king and brought your axe down on his head!"

It's better if you sometimes let them get away with stuff that isn't 110% "realistic" than the game devolves into comparing numbers to charts. Don't let them succeed automatically, but give it a chance. The SIEGE engine is great for this sort of on the fly rulings. Those are the sessions they'll remember.

*If the players (and I mean all of them) are involved with talking in-character amongst themselves or with an NPC, don't cut it short. They are roleplaying, and that's a good thing. Obviously, if they are discussing a strategy of how to deal with the hobgoblins smashing down the door to the room they are hiding in, then events should eventually overtake them, but you get the idea.

[Omote]

...and bighara spells out some fantastic, tried and true statements. Even after all of my years of DMing, GMing, and CKing, I still read bighara's above post 3 times over. Great advice.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[adaen]

bighara wrote:
--snip--

Omote is right about practice. If you seriously want a guide to GM-ing, I'd have to recommend "Robin's Laws of Good Game Mastering" published by Steve Jackson Games. --snip--

I actually wrote a pretty detailed review of this book (which I highly recommend) a while back:
http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com ... mastering/
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[Storm Queen]

I like Greg Stolze's article on GMing over here:
http://www.gregstolze.com/HowtoRun.zip
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[Zudrak]

adaen wrote:
I actually wrote a pretty detailed review of this book (which I highly recommend) a while back:
http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com ... mastering/

Scrubs fans agree again! I really like the book, as well, and give it my recommendation too.
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