C&C, SRD, BFRPG mod as an for educational tool?

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:33 am

Here is an email I sent to the creator of the Basic Fantasy RPG:

I stumbled upon you fantastic system after becoming interested in C&C (which I heard about after the death of Gary Gygax-sad). It seems like a very good system that is rather flexible and simple. After looking through the last few pages I see that BFRPG is based on the SRD and C&C. I am interested in coming up with an even simpler version for non native speakers that teaches as it is played. I guess the idea is to progressively introduce elements as the children (or even adults) play. Is there some kind of system like this already?

Another thing I wanted to ask you about was whether or not something based on your rules (or the idea of your rules), the d20 SRD, and C&C could be copyrighted and potentially commercialized. Your system is very good but it would still need to be adjusted and modified for non native speakers. If I developed this it would be something derivative of all three but not a copy.

RPGs could be a wonderful way to teach language as one needs to be able communicate actions, calculate, and express abstract ideas. Thank you for creating such a wonderful document!

Cheers,

End letter

My questions to the Trolls are basically the same. The Siege Engine or something akin to it is probably the best conflict resolution system for a simple system.

I tutor for my living expenses (graduate student in Taiwan) and a curriculum could be designed for an educational purpose. If I did this my motives would also be financial. I don't know much about the d20 copyright though, so I would like to understand the limits a bit. Could a for profit curriculum book be published for a system based on CnC, the SRD, and by extension BFRPG? Would the act of role playing with a derivative work for profit be a violation?

Thanks for any ideas or feedback anyone might have!

Cheers

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:57 pm

Yes, you could definitely do this. Remember that the SIEGE system is proprietary however, and you cannot publish anything that specifically defines the SIEGE engine without permission from TLG.

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:13 pm

Its great that I can do this! I have been thinking about how to do it all day and I think it would be pretty easy. A pared down system, taught in incremental steps along with vocabulary and reading assignments would make a great little game and educational tool. Perhaps it will be kept rather limited at first, say 4 levels or so. I could homebrew this rather easily and quickly.

The Siege engine would be a great way to streamline everything (thereby making it a more effective learning tool). I understand it is proprietary, but is that the actual mechanic by numbers, or the idea? I don't want to try this in an infringing manner. Please PM me if you can give me more details on this topic. If the numbers were changed around would it be infringement? Where is the line? With potential commercial applications I don't want to step on anyones toes.

Thanks for the great work,

Cheers!

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:37 pm

papercut wrote:
Its great that I can do this! I have been thinking about how to do it all day and I think it would be pretty easy. A pared down system, taught in incremental steps along with vocabulary and reading assignments would make a great little game and educational tool. Perhaps it will be kept rather limited at first, say 4 levels or so. I could homebrew this rather easily and quickly.

The Siege engine would be a great way to streamline everything (thereby making it a more effective learning tool). I understand it is proprietary, but is that the actual mechanic by numbers, or the idea? I don't want to try this in an infringing manner. Please PM me if you can give me more details on this topic. If the numbers were changed around would it be infringement? Where is the line? With potential commercial applications I don't want to step on anyones toes.

Thanks for the great work,

Cheers!

I'll give you the only advice that matters. Pick up the phone and call or email Steve. He's the only one who's going to be able to give a correct answer on this.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:40 pm

As a former teacher of English to non-native speakers I have used role-playing games to help improve grammar, spelling and vocabulary with excellent results. I believe that a contributing factor is that many people don't mind trying out rpgs and can easily grasp the concept.

One game that I wished was around that would have helped is a Faery's Tale by Firefly Games. You might begin there and work into a C&C or BFRPG type rpg. It is a game for younger children and is written in an easy to understand manner. Trying to teach more complicated roleplaying games is difficult with some people, especially getting them to grasp complicated nuances that don't translate easily. Challenging, but not impossible.
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Ubriago · Post by **Ubriago** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:32 pm

I have always used RPGs as teaching tools to American kids.

I encouraged playing to my Boy Scouts and it was very well received.

I figure anything that gets kids to read/write, resolve problems and conflict, and do basic math...has to be good for them.

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:05 pm

That Faery game has some sweet art! The good thing about DnD is that it is free, though; there is also a wealth of knowledge to draw upon if needed. And basically it can be stripped all the way down to attack rolls and the Siege Engine for intro play. There is whole lot of stuff added on top of that that is not necessary. Apparently Sam Walton was not the only smart person in Arekanas.

I think I'll write up lesson one sometime next week and get some kids together to test it out. 3-5 warriors running amuck with simple check rules should be a blast.

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:14 pm

papercut wrote:
Apparently Sam Walton was not the only smart person in Arekanas.

I think I'll write up lesson one sometime next week and get some kids together to test it out. 3-5 warriors running amuck with simple check rules should be a blast.

Good luck with that!
_________________
Deserve has nothing to do with it, if you think you're entitled. You're not.

--Stephen Chenault

Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

J. R. R. Tolkien

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:28 am

Not sure if this will help or not, but I used C&C to teach my son his alphabet last year, per this thread:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
_________________
AD&D, Amish Dungeons & Dragons.

"Galstaff, ye are in a cornfield, when a moustachioed man approaches. What say ye?"

"I shun him."

-----

"Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books."

-- E. Gary Gygax

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:30 am

Well the first little mini session was a big hit. I ran two fifth graders (Taiwanese) through some mock combat with a giant ratmonster. They loved it! The dice, the intrigue, and the killing. The final blow came from a natural 20, so I got to ham it up. I think I am in gamer heaven, how many people get paid to DM?

Actually, I am getting paid to put together a curriculum to teach these kids, CnC/DnD is just a tool. Finding dice was a chore, but I found a shop with a large selection of 3.5 books and some dice so it was cool. Good prices on the English books too (although I am not in the market for them). 4e will be very cheap, it will retail at about the Amazon price- I'm gonna have to pick it up, can't resist the new hotness .

An interesting thing to note is that there is also a Chinese 3.5 PHB. I'm gonna pick it up and find a Chinese group (DnD in Chinese! Woot!). Then I'll try to convert them crusader style!

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:04 pm

I just realized there is a typo in the header of this thread, lol.

adaen · Post by **adaen** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:13 pm

Good luck with the educational efforts. I think many of us can attribute at least a portion of our education to rpg's (esp. D&D).

At this point, I think of a Mark Twain quote of which I am fond:

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

D&D was definitely part of my education, but was never part of my schooling.

Best,

~AoB
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~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com

Troll Lord Games

C&C, SRD, BFRPG mod as an for educational tool?

C&C, SRD, BFRPG mod as an for educational tool?

Mark Twain would approve I think....