RULES CYCLOPEDIA???

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:51 pm

Where can I find this?

Also, are there similar 'cyclopedias' for other systems?

seems like a great idea.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:40 am

Joe wrote:
Where can I find this?

Also, are there similar 'cyclopedias' for other systems?

seems like a great idea.

Mainly on ebay. Its a compilation of the old 5 Basic OD&D box sets.

The book's been out of print for 15 years or more.
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:08 am

You arent going to get it cheap, unless you are very lucky. Ive seen it going for $30-$50+ on Ebay.

Storm Queen · Post by **Storm Queen** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:18 am

There's a PDF version you can buy on RPGnow for $5.95:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php? ... 17171&it=1
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Birthright · Post by **Birthright** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:50 am

...Or for $4.00 from Paizo

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:44 am

You can try your luck on eBay, go the pdf route, or pick it up used on Amazon's marketplace. They have a $15 copy in sorry shape and half-decent ones for $30 or so.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... f=dp_olp_2

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:18 pm

What about the C&C Rules Encyclopedia? C'mon, how hard would it be to combine the PHB and the M&T... TLG knows they want to.

-O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:02 pm

I kinda like Rules Cyclopendium.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:22 pm

That iz pretty coolio. There you have it Trolls, a great title for the collected books of Castles & Crusades.

-O
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BLOOD AXE · Post by **BLOOD AXE** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:09 pm

Omote wrote:
That iz pretty coolio. There you have it Trolls, a great title for the collected books of Castles & Crusades.

-O

Collected books? Isn't there only 2 C&C hardcovers so far?

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:09 pm

Nah, a compendium is when the product is end of lined. Rules cyclopedia is sweet though, and much easier on the eyes than most DMGs. I had the pdf printed out for about $10, which brings my total cost to $14 (not too bad, no shipping).
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bighara · Post by **bighara** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:30 pm

Despite the fact that I am a Moldvay die-hard, I do dearly love my RC. It's a pleasure just to flip though. And ahving the pdf on my machine at work means quick & easy reference.
Some day I may run a RC game, it would be cool to use some of that higher-level stuff like Warmachine.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:35 pm

bighara wrote:
Despite the fact that I am a Moldvay die-hard, I do dearly love my RC. It's a pleasure just to flip though. And ahving the pdf on my machine at work means quick & easy reference.
Some day I may run a RC game, it would be cool to use some of that higher-level stuff like Warmachine.

Do you think you could run a such a high level scenario over 4 to 6 weeks for our Thursday on line group?
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bighara · Post by **bighara** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:37 pm

Treebore wrote:
Do you think you could run a such a high level scenario over 4 to 6 weeks for our Thursday on line group?

Sounds like a lot of fun, but I don't know that I'm your guy. I've rarely run high level (C/M/I) stuff. But if you need an impartial DM for some "EVENT" or a one-shot, let me know via PM and we can see what might be done.

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:55 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Mainly on ebay. Its a compilation of the old 5 Basic OD&D box sets.

The book's been out of print for 15 years or more.

It left out the Immortal Rules. Which was fine by me, I never played them.
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:08 am

Well I got my grubby mitts on a copy. Borrowed it from a friend.

Just glancing at the book I notice they are using

Thaco as the base combat system. I remeber -10 AC

before Thaco. I don't remeber thaco being a part of original D&D.

I do not think this was the original mechanic but

rather a 2nd edition element written into the basic

D&D.

I started gaming in 6th grade with AD&D some time in

the 70's. I only played a little bit of Basic D&D and

remember asking another player what sort of dwarf he

was playing. He kept saying just a dwarf. I found it

dumb so I never paid attention to anything but AD&D.

Yet, if I remember correctly the 1st edition had -10

being the best AC, and AC zero just being an AC on the

way to being the best.

Am I correct that there was even an earlier D&D?

-Joe

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:30 pm

A brief (approximate) timeline:

1974: Original D&D (the little brown box, later white) 3 booklets.

1978: Holmes Basic D&D (the blue book with the knight and wizard fighting a red dragon)

1979: AD&D 1st Edition books start to be released.

1981: Moldvay Basic D&D & Cook Expert D&D (Erol Otus covers)

1983: Mentzer Basic D&D & Expert D&D (Elmore covers)

1990?: Rules Cyclopedia released.

Check out www.acaeum.com for more info on release dates.

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:15 pm

Joe wrote:
I don't remeber thaco being a part of original D&D. I do not think this was the original mechanic but rather a 2nd edition element written into the basic D&D

People keep saying that about THAC0, and in fact have suggested that my mind is not whole when I insist that - YES - there was THAC0 before 2nd Edition. I've even got some AD&D character sheets around here somewhere that date from about 1983/4 with a space on them for THAC0.

I'm not sure why, but bazillions of people must think me and my buds invented the damn thing I guess.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:33 pm

Harry Joy wrote:
People keep saying that about THAC0, and in fact have suggested that my mind is not whole when I insist that - YES - there was THAC0 before 2nd Edition. I've even got some AD&D character sheets around here somewhere that date from about 1983/4 with a space on them for THAC0.

I'm not sure why, but bazillions of people must think me and my buds invented the damn thing I guess.

Certainly THAC0 came out before 2e. I remember a summer school AD&D 'class' I was in from 1984 too 1989 where the DM used thac0. Thats where I first heard about it. The DM, a teacher named Clint Owen, pulled it from a Dragon article or some such, he said.

I think I still have the pages he typed up.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:36 pm

I remember THAC0 pre-AD&D2. It was basically the short-hand version found amongst stat-blocks in modules (space-saving?) that was spelled out on the sheets and books.
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Wulfgarn · Post by **Wulfgarn** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:08 pm

It made its foothold in Dragonlance Material- atleast that was when I first saw it.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:47 pm

The RC is overpriced, IMO. I've wanted one but refuse to pay those high prices.

Instead I've been buying up Frank's individual rulebooks and I'm much happier doing so. I'd rather have them anyway.

Next up - Masters!

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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:06 pm

So the answer is YEs it was before 2nd edition...

Or NO it came with second edition.
When some make long posts and never answer the question I tend to suspect they might not be sure.
I remember -10 being the big AC not Thaco.

This leads me to suspect Thaco was a later concept & it was NOT part of the 1974 or 78 edition.
I am not trrying to prove anyone wrong, just looking for the earliest source of rules that I can.

Does anyone know a solid answer?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:53 pm

It came out during 2nd edition. There was a time, albeit briefly, where most everything (other than OD&D) was being actively "supported" by TSR.

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:16 pm

re: pricing. I just noticed on the back of mine it retailed for $24.95 back in the day, so I guess $30-something isn't so bad now that it's long OOP.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:36 pm

Joe wrote:
When some make long posts and never answer the question I tend to suspect they might not be sure.

I did answer the question. I recall Thac0 being out before 2e. Somewhere in the 83'-84 time frame.

It just didn't appear in a core book. The fellow who introduced it to the group I was with at the time got it from a Dragon Mag article.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:19 am

Quote:
I recall Thac0 being out before 2e. Somewhere in the 83'-84 time frame.

Its a little earlier than that, too. The 1e DMG has it mentioned, but I do not think it really goes into what it is, and its slightly different than the attack matrices anyway... a sort of simplified attack chart. After that, I believe it was a module, though I can't recall which, that had it first.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:50 am

Ok, well I have always hated Thaco...but that's neither here nor there.

How can I get my hands on the original 74-78 stuff?

bighara · Post by **bighara** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:24 pm

Joe wrote:
Ok, well I have always hated Thaco...but that's neither here nor there.

How can I get my hands on the original 74-78 stuff?

Well OD&D aka "The little white books" are available to buy in PDF form on sites like paizo.com as well as -iirc- the supplements. Likewise you can get the "Blue" Holmes Basic pdf there, too. Moldvay's Basic and Cook's Expert are not available in legal pdf, but they are slightly after the timeframe you refer to (post 1978). If you want hardcopy, the Holmes basic book shouldn't be too pricey on eBay, but the white box can vary a lot depending on which printing & condition, etc.

deimos3428 · Post by **deimos3428** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:50 pm

bighara wrote:
the white box can vary a lot depending on which printing & condition, etc.

If you have only a casual interest in owning the white box, particularly the OCE, I'd strongly suggest waiting to purchase one for a few months. The market (eBay) has gone nuts on these since Gary's passing, with prices reaching ridiculous heights. They'll get cheaper again, just wait out the wave of nostalgia.

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RULES CYCLOPEDIA???

RULES CYCLOPEDIA???

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