Troll Lord Games

The Berserker class in the other thread looks cool, but it's a different archetype, not a barbarian (at least to me). Then I read this in the thread:

TheNewGuy wrote:
When a new player wants to play "a barbarian", he or she is usually thinking of Conan. There's a fundamental disconnect there between the fantasy rpg archetype and the fantasy fiction archetype.

I'm convinced that, if Barbarian is going to be split off as a separate class from Fighter, it should at least contain the option to make a Conan-style character, as well as what is essentially a Viking berserker.

So my question is: what in your opinion would be the features of Conan's custom class?

As far as I am concerned I did read one Conan book, I have two Conan comics, and have seen the movies. I am not sure what distinguishes Conan, in terms of rpg class abilities. Tentatively I would propose:
Prime: probably Strength
BtH: as ranger-paladin-barbarian
HD: d10 or d12 (probably d12)
Armors: up to medium armors (chainmail and the like)
Weapons: all
Skills: move-silently, climb.
Class features:

-- Distrustful if not fearful of magic (suffers a penalty when confronted by magic). May only use magic weapons and armors of the most simple sort (+1/etc. without special abilities), not wondrous miscellaneous magical items, strange potions or items that cast spells.

-- AC bonus when fighting unarmored (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 6th level, and +3 at 12th level).

-- Weapon of choice: +1 at 3rd level, then +2 at 10th level to damage (not BtH) with a single weapon.

-- Bonus to Cha rolls to intimidate people.

-- Survive all odds: 1/day, if brought below zero hit-points by a physical attack, poison, magic, etc., is brought only to zero hp instead. (Conan seems to endure all manner of hardships, tortures, etc., such as the "tree of death" that would kill others, but he survives them...)

Of course all of this would need refining. I am waiting for your suggestions. Otherwise, what's your take on the custom class that would best portray Conan in CnC?
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I think this premise proceeds from an improper basis. I don't think a generic class should be created from a specific character. Rather, specific characters are created out of the classes.

That said, in C&C terms Conan is still pretty close to a barbarian. Your descripion is primarily about survivability, and no other class can withstand damage of all sorts than a barbarian.

But you don't want them to be the berserker type, so just drop rage and add something else. Combat Dominance perhaps, to mow down all the minions in his way?

I don't think it requires many changes to make the barbarian work quite nicely.

-Fizz

Fizz wrote:
I think this premise proceeds from an improper basis. I don't think a generic class should be created from a specific character. Rather, specific characters are created out of the classes.

That said, in C&C terms Conan is still pretty close to a barbarian. Your descripion is primarily about survivability, and no other class can withstand damage of all sorts than a barbarian.

But you don't want them to be the berserker type, so just drop rage and add something else. Combat Dominance perhaps, to mow down all the minions in his way?

I don't think it requires many changes to make the barbarian work quite nicely.

-Fizz

IIRC, Conan was a fighter-thief in module CB1 for OAD&D.
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Fizz wrote:
I think this premise proceeds from an improper basis. I don't think a generic class should be created from a specific character. Rather, specific characters are created out of the classes.

I don't think it requires many changes to make the barbarian work quite nicely.

I am well aware that many will find the attempt ludicrous. Simply ignore the thread if you think the core barbarian (or fighter or whatever) is the class to go, or if a character should be modeled after existing classes rather than the contrary.

However, there are people around who have expressed a dissatisfaction with the core barbarian class, and at least one other who thinks no class represents the Conan archetype appropriately. This thread is for such people to provide their opinion on how to make a new barbarian class that would fit their taste.
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Turanil wrote:
This thread is for such people to provide their opinion on how to make a new barbarian class that would fit their taste.

Right. I didn't mean to sound like i was shooting down the entire notion of modifying the barbarian. Apologies if that's how it came off.

My point was that your initial description seemed to focus on survivability. In that case, the existing C&C barbarian is the best place to start. From that you can tweak it to be more Conan-esque.

-Fizz

To get the "Hyborian-type" barbarian, I took the C&C barbarian and added the survival and track abilities (bringing the XP table to 2251 at first level). It has worked quite well.

Ok. A fighter with CON and Dex as prime.

Done.
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Peter Bradley

Except that in Howard's original Conan yarns, Conan is a berserker. He often enters "The fighting-madness of his people," during which he, well, rages. Just like Barbarians in AD&D and C&C.

What makes Conan different is that he has a holy ton of classes under his belt. During his career he displays all the talents of the following classes:

A Barbarian

A Fighter

A Buccaneer (a class we don't have)

A Ranger

A Rogue

A Knight

As for only allowing up to medium armor, in the novel The Hour of the Dragon Conan dons full plate and shows no discomfort in doing so.

Don't confuse Arnold Schwarzenneger with Howard's Conan. It's two different characters, no matter what Milos Forman tries to claim.

All that being said, rabindranath72's solution is probably the best one, then multiclass him with rogue.

I'm working on an alternate "true Barbarian" (i.e. modeled on Germanic tribal warriors) to fit alongside the suggested Berserker. I caught myself thinking "Would a Barbarian/Berserker dual class character fit Conan?" - but as a real fan of both the original Howard Conan and the later comic images, I don't that character class is the sole answer. There are two reasons for this - first and most important, Conan was always written as a man of many careers: barbarian, thief, reaver, mercenary, pirate, general, and king. In each of the stories focusing on one of those aspects, he is portrayed as an archetype of that aspect - in other words, he is by nature and experience multi-classed in rpg terms. Secondly, Conan is not just any barbarian, he is a Cimmerian, in turn the archetype of the Barbarian. Both of these themes - leaning heavily on a blend of strong historical archetypes with fantastic elements mixed in, and a strong preference for the barbaric over the civilized - were central to Howard's writings. So, I think the quest to create Conan has to start with defining his Cimmerian background first (i.e. a "race" like dwarf or elf), and then working out a system where he can move back and forth at will between classes.

And ... I don't have any concrete suggestions.
However, I think that the Ranger fits much better with his early years as a woods-wise "barbarian" warrior and stealthy but strong-armed sort of thief - he didn't pick pockets, he cut lock-bolts in twain and scaled the sheer walls of jeweled towers like cliff faces. The other "barbaric" traits - suspicion of magic, touchy honor, black rages - could be part of his "racial" package, which would also include skill boosts to survival, climbing, etc.

"Don't confuse Arnold Schwarzenneger with Howard's Conan. It's two different characters, no matter what Milos Forman tries to claim."

QFT!

Howard wrote Conan as strong, but it was his "pantherish speed" on the attack and defense, and his enormous vitality and strength of will, that were more central to the character. He was also both cunning and intelligent, although these traits evolved slowly over years of experience.

Does he ever wear armor??? Maybe a AC boost while unarmored like a Monk.

Conan wears plate at least once in the REH stories. He ALWAYS uses the best armor he can find. He's not stupid. I think he's a fighter/thief, with a couple levels barbarian for fun.
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Dan
http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/candc.html - my Castles and Crusades webpage

Turanil wrote:
Of course all of this would need refining. I am waiting for your suggestions. Otherwise, what's your take on the custom class that would best portray Conan in CnC?

The following class could be used for Conan and other "noble savages". Later on, when he wears heavier armor, he'd have taken levels of Fighter.
The Barbarian (ala Conan)

Prime: STR

BtH Progression: +1/level after 1st level.

HD Type: d12

Armor: Light & medium armor and shields

Weapons: All

XP Progression: As the Ranger class.
Combat Sense: As per a standard Barbarian class. In addition, the keen senses and lightning reflexes of a barbarian allow him to add both his WIS and DEX bonuses to his armor class so long as he is wearing light armor and no more than lightly encumbered.
Fast Movement: The barbarians Movement Rate is 10 faster than is usual for a member of his race so long as he is not wearing heavy armor or carrying more than a light load.
Primal Force: As per the standard Barbarian class. In addition the barbarian's will to live allows them to fight on, even when reduced to negative hit points. Once reduced to -10 hit points the barbarian dies.
Aversion to Magic: Barbarians may only use magical armor and weapons until 4th level. From 5th to 8th level, they may also make use of magical potions. At 9th level and higher, barbarians may use all magic items that Fighters may employ.
Survival (Wisdom): As per the Ranger class.
Track: As per the Ranger class.
Berserker Rage: Gained at 4th level. As per the standard Barbarian class.

BLOOD AXE wrote:
Does he ever wear armor??? Maybe a AC boost while unarmored like a Monk.

Somewhat along these lines ~ if an average PC starts with AC 10 as their base, then I think Conan would have an 11 or 12.

Also, I'd use HD: d12.

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Conan wears armor whenever he can get it, and whenever it is appropriate for the setting of the story:

Frost Giants Daughter: Scale shirt, helm, shield.

God in the Bowl: none.

Tower of the Elephant: none.

Rogues in the House: none.

Isle of Iron Statues: none

Black Collossus: chain hauberk, chain coif, helm.

Queen of the Black Coast: chain hauberk, scale curaiss, helm.

A Witch Shall be Born: medium to heavy armor (beginning), none (middle and end).

Devil in Iron: none.

People of the Black Circle: none (hide armor?)

Maneaters of Zamboula: none.

The Slithering Shadow: none [last survivor of a mercenary army, armor hacked away]

People of the Black Circle: none.

Vale of Lost Women: none.

Beyond the Black River: helm, chain shirt

The Black Stranger: none.

Red Nails: none.

Jewels of Gwalhir: none.

Phoenix on the Sword: half dressed in plate (surprise attack).

Scarlet Citadel: full plate in beginning.

Hour of the Dragon: full plate (beginning), none (middle), chain hauberk (end)

As a general rule: when Conan is thieving, pirating or leading nomadic/barbarian raiders/tribes, he wears little or no armor. When he is in mercenary settings, he wears the best armor available (usually chain hauberks). When he is King of Aquilonia, he wears plate.

I've got it!

Make Conan-Class like the 1st edition Bard.

You must progress X levels as Barbarian, Y levels as Thief, Z levels as Ranger, (W levels as fighter?) etc... perhaps require secondary skills of Oceaneering/Piracy... after accumulating, I dunno, a dozen or so levels, you can call yourself a Conan.

How's that?

Where is the O'Brien effect?