Deluxe Edition

Foxroe · Post by **Foxroe** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:13 pm

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but here goes...

Has any thought ever been given to publishing an all-in-one "deluxe" edition C&C? I understand that there are the separate collectors' books, but I was thinking something more like a single hard-bound PHB+MT+intro adventure type of thing.

-Fox

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:34 pm

Its been mentioned, but I don't know if its ever been considered beyond that.

Meaning by the Trolls themselves.

Personally I like having them separate. Such a book would be nothing but a "collectors book" in my opinion. I doubt I would buy it. I haven't bought the "collectors" books they do have.
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Foxroe · Post by **Foxroe** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:06 pm

I agree; I like having the rule books separate as well, that way players just have to purchase the PHB and only the DM has to buy M&T.

On the other hand, I have all of the D&D boxed sets, but I also bought the Rules Cyclopedia, because it's nice to have all of the info in one location. Necessary? Nope. Just a luxury.

-Fox

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:10 am

I have to say I would advocate such a thing. I would like it to be the PH, M&T and a small Gazz on Outremer or Yggs as a starting point. And yes I would bu two or three for my table.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon May 26, 2008 6:09 pm

I doubt there is a significant fiscal reason to produce a work like this.

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon May 26, 2008 6:42 pm

Of course. The multi book paradigm for RPGs these days produce good profits. Why muck that up with something different?
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon May 26, 2008 7:54 pm

Well, not only that, but such a book will not be a big seller. So its a financial risk. One a company as small as the Trolls would be foolish to take.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:28 pm

I'd say it would sell better than they think. I know I would buy one if they were produced and I do know a few gamers who stay away from forums who wish more systems did do a one book system rather than buying two or more for a full system. IMNSHO the three book paradigm was a good idea for it's time but one that is passed.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:07 pm

Maybe it has. Or maybe they have forgotten how convenient it is to have a players book to look in and a separate DM's book. That way when your looking up CK stuff your Players can look stuff up in the Players book.

Or in my situation. I buy 5 PH's and one DMG/M&T for my family. Would buying 5 combined books be more economical and sensible for me? I doubt it.
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:33 pm

I remember when I played Shadowrun, Earthdawn and other one core book games at first only one person had the book and we all played without them. Later some of us bought them but most didn't it was nice to only have one book to look in.

It's proved successful in the past with other systems and I think it would work with C&C.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:54 pm

I agree its definitely workable. I played SR and other single source books as well.

I am just saying there are times when its more convenient to have them separated, as well as more economical.

In the case of SR, I only own one core book of each edition. I won't buy one for each of my family because of how expensive it is. I did buy them each a copy of the C&C PH, though.

The only reason I have one of each L5R book is because I got a great deal on eBay where I got them each for less than $15.00. I would not have bought them at even normal Amazon discount prices.

So you have to decide what you want. I like being able to afford buying additional books for each of my family members. We only need one Game Master Rules book, but if its affordable we prefer a players book for everyone.

Heck, the only reason I have one 3.5 E PH for each of us is because I took years to buy them as B-day presents and such. The C&C PH's I bought at one time. For second and third printings.

So it just depends on what your looking for.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:58 pm

If the trolls make a DLUX version, I'll buy lots of copies. After the CKG comes out, and the system has been refined over the years, a Rules Cyclopedia version would be an awesome product (and would probably sell very well).

Oh yeah, Trolls, if u r reading this, count me in for like LOTS of copies.

-O
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:04 pm

In a typical situation you'll probably only have one person flipping the bill for books. That has been my experience in 90% of the games I played. I know in my C&C games we have only one set of books. I do have two PH's but that was a shipping fluke when they were relased. ( I canceled an order from Wal-mart.com but still got the book) So really a one book edition is a possible idea when looking at it like that.

The one book edition I would like to see would have the full PH (plus weapon and armor descriptions) and M&T texts, a bit of a gazetteer on either Airdhe, Outremere, Yggsburgh, or the Haunted Highlands, and a short adventure for starting out. I don't see why this wouldn't sell to new players at all.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:29 pm

It might. I am just saying its not as easy a call as it may appear to be. Combine that with a company the size of the Trolls, they don't have much wiggle room with which to recover from financial mistakes.

Plus price is becoming a bigger issue for people every day.

Now as far as I can tell C&C has maybe 2000 regular fans buying stuff. If that is a solid number that has been stable, preferably growing, for a year or so now, maybe it is something worth considering and risking.

Anyways, such an idea is not a moot/undoable idea, its just one that is likely to be best to wait on doing, when the future of C&C is much more confident.
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Foxroe · Post by **Foxroe** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:04 am

Well, if it is ever considered, I do have a suggestion. A few independent RPG authors use Lulu.com to provide people with printed copies of their games. I'm not 100% sure how it works, but I'm under the impression that the Trolls would simply have Lulu only produce as many copies as are ordered through the website. This would mitigate and financial impact by avoiding having to print X*1000 copies and hope that they all sell. From what I hear, the quality of Lulu books is pretty decent.

-Fox

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:16 am

I just went and looked at Lulu for some simple price quotes. First, they can't (or won't quote) a 200+ page saddle-stitched normal-size book; they max page count at 88 for that style. So, I looked at something else, and assumed 200+ pages, at 500 copies... it was more than $8K. I am very confident the Trolls pay less than this, but I am not entirely sure on that.... $8k seems too high for 500 whole books. Granted, they were hardcovers with dustjackets, but, still...

So, I guess it makes the most sense if you do very small runs, like, 5, or 10.... and do comic book style.

Foxroe · Post by **Foxroe** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:28 am

Maybe not then. Guess I'm trying too hard to coerce this into being...
-Fox

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:33 am

Heh, it is OK to want something, and to want it badly. I think a compendium-style C&C book could be awesome - I doubt it would have Yggsburgh in it (for various reasons, one being that it owned by a separate company), but could easily see it having Aihrde, if that was what the Trolls wanted. In fact, I'd applaud it, and say "hell yeah" and then sit back, kick it, and wait for payments to come in due to contractual agreements.

I just don't know the price feasibility, and the market viability. Special items like this don't tend to sell too well, or so I've heard from others. There may be a slight demand amongst a very small amount of games, but is that enough? A niche within a niche in a cubby-hole in the wall of a niche.

Maybe if TLG opted for the wargame P500 approach?

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:49 am

I think it all depends on what the 90% of the customers who never see the forums or such want.
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Jason Vey · Post by **Jason Vey** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:48 pm

Hell, I still think they should do an edition that parodies the trade dress of the original AD&D first edition books. Maybe not the original Efreeti/demon statue covers, because those have been done to death, but the second covers, with the blue wizard, the keymaster opening the door to fabulous treasure, and the pegasus-vs.-red-dragon covers.

I'd pony up for it.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:12 pm

The Grey Elf wrote:
Hell, I still think they should do an edition that parodies the trade dress of the original AD&D first edition books. Maybe not the original Efreeti/demon statue covers, because those have been done to death, but the second covers, with the blue wizard, the keymaster opening the door to fabulous treasure, and the pegasus-vs.-red-dragon covers.

I'd pony up for it.

Cool. For now, I would be content to see the CKG. Please?

Jason Vey · Post by **Jason Vey** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:31 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Cool. For now, I would be content to see the CKG. Please?

Eh. I'd rather see Zagyg Upper Works.