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Encumberance - How do you deal? 
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Lore Drake
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Post Encumberance - How do you deal?
Just curious how all of you deal w/encumberance in your games - do you stick with the PHB guidlines for negative effects or do you modify?

My own feeling is that the EV effects are a little much on the lighter end - the negatives for being "Lightly" encumbered, and that I would have the negatives kick in with the "Moderate" (2xER-3xER) level, readjust slightly both the Moderate & Heavy effects, and leave overburdened the same.

So what do you guys do? (My main reason for all this is that this seems a bit picky to say a Wizard only wearing a robe, basic clothes, belt with some belt puches for components & money, a backpack with spellbook & rations, and a staff would already be well into "lighter" encumberance and would suffer penalties here).

The other thing I already know I'll change is initiative - I will let PC's add DEX and WIS modifiers to this d10 roll.

I also like some of the ideas for slight variances on extra primes for demi-humans - may consider that.

Cheers!
John Maddog Wright


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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:00 pm
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Ulthal
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I use the 2nd printing ENC rules (it lets players add stuff if they have Con or Str primes). Plus I don't count clothing in encumbrance. Armor, weapons, backpacks and other equipment yes. Also putting things like daggers in sheaths, bandoliers, arrors in quivers and such also reduces encubrance in my game.
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:10 pm
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Hlobane Orc
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Like Combat_Klye, I treat sheathed weapons as less. I use the 1 less for worn rule. It seems reasonable and within the same logic.

Quote:
Combat_Kyle wrote:
I use the 2nd printing ENC rules (it lets players add stuff if they have Con or Str primes).



Is there a listing of the changes somewhere, or am I stuck with my first printing?


Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:16 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
BeZurKur wrote:
Like Combat_Klye, I treat sheathed weapons as less. I use the 1 less for worn rule. It seems reasonable and within the same logic.


Is there a listing of the changes somewhere, or am I stuck with my first printing?



You add STR modifier, then also may add +2 to ER for CON and/or STR if either is a prime. All these can stack.
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:23 pm
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Ulthal
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Not sure, but it is simple if a character has a Str Prime, they get +2 to their ENC rating. If they have a Con Prime they also get a +2. So a character with 18 Str will have an ENC rating of 17 (+3 Str mod, +2 Str Prime, +2 Con prime). Makes fighters even more useful.
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:24 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Combat_Kyle wrote:
Not sure, but it is simple if a character has a Str Prime, they get +2 to their ENC rating. If they have a Con Prime they also get a +2. So a character with 18 Str will have an ENC rating of 17 (+3 Str mod, +2 Str Prime, +2 Con prime). Makes fighters even more useful.



But still doesn't help my Illusionist or Wizard with just average strength (9-12)) and neither as primes lol.
How much does a spellbook weigh anyway? I am estimating 2 lbs, EV 2 (if it says somewhere I missed it)
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:29 pm
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Ulthal
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True, but but most ENC comes from wepaons and armor, never a problem for a wizard.
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:34 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
Combat_Kyle wrote:
True, but but most ENC comes from wepaons and armor, never a problem for a wizard.



P.S. - Got the character sheet back ok - thanks for the extra CON and the Whistle.
Will be ready Sunday afternoon - I'm coming back from a theatre conference early for this!
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:38 pm
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Ulthal
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Sounds good, theatre sounds like a cool job. I ran the light board and spotlights for plays in musicals is high school, I loved doing it!
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:39 pm
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Encumbrance? I ignore it unless a character is trying to get away with something. Basically, just common sense stuff. For example, I don't let a character pull a sledgehammer out of nowehere unless the player bothered telling me they were looking for one, and then, I'll just remember they have it, should they later say "oh yeah, and this axe, and shovel, and pick, and umm, yeah, I forgot... I have a donkey too." Heh, "maybe the donkey is carrying it?" "Naw, he broke his ankle, remember? I'm carrying him!" "Umm, no." Seen it happen. Doesn't happen anymore. Well... in my current game, it might, since I recently got a bag of holding.... muahahaha! (CK Brian Miller will know why this is a BAD thing for me to have...)


Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:45 pm
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Lore Drake
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Quote:
serleran wrote:
(CK Brian Miller will know why this is a BAD thing for me to have...)



You didn't try to put a bag of holding INTO another bag of holding did you Serl?
On the other stuff - I tend to agree with the basic common sense approach so that you're not worrying about being a couple of EVs over/under some specific point.
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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:49 pm
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Mogrl

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Common sense most of the time. Only really look at it when new loot is found. Or I suspect abuse of common sense.

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Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:52 pm
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I ignore it, too, but within reason.

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Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:21 pm
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Ulthal

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Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:08 pm
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Mogrl

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Quote:
Quote:
You didn't try to put a bag of holding INTO another bag of holding did you Serl?



Oh, no, nothing like that. I can just be a real terror when I've got an item that lets me keep stuffing stuff in, cause you never know what isn't bolted down that I might try to get in the bag. And, even if it is bolted, I probably have a crowbar and boltcutters to get around it...


Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:28 am
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Lore Drake

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Quote:
Treebore wrote:
Common sense most of the time. Only really look at it when new loot is found. Or I suspect abuse of common sense.



Ditto.
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Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:00 am
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At first it seemed to be a headache... The session I just ran, we basically ignored it since it was everyone's first real foray into C&C.

However, the players did look through it and all *really* like the concept of EV as opposed to just weight and in the next session or two... we will be starting to use it...

That being said, the tables regarding encumbrance might be tweaked abit, but we will be trying it as is for now.

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Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:24 am
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Since the first print PH, I've ignored encumbrance and just use common sense. So far my players haven't tried to carry too much.

Just for fun, I'm still wanting to take my most encumbered player and check him under the 2nd print revised rules to see how he does.
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Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:04 pm
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Mist Elf

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The players added up their EVs for the gear they always carry around, it wasnt really hard, the rich bard ended up being the only one encumbered cuz he had bought so much. But for loot, just stuff in a bag what you think would fit and go, no one wants to stop the game to add up EV values of that sort of stuff.


Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:43 pm
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The changes from 1st to 2nd printing for ENC are as follows:
All clothes/armor are marked as wearable (and thus have -1 to EV when worn)
STR or CON primes add +2 each to the Encumbrance Rating for the character. These bonuses stack.
Encumbrance Rating Base raised to 10 from 8.
Under AD HOC ENC, Heavy items now have a +3 modifier to the EV and Very Heavy Items have +5. Narrow items halve the EV rather than -2.
Under AD HOC ENC, the base EV for an item is the largest dimension plus 2 for all other dimension greater than 1 foot (was previously +2 for every dimension greater than 2 feet).
Capacity Items reduce the total EV of the items carried within them by -2 rather than -1.
Drop AC penalties for Encumbrance. ENC Penalties are as follows:
Light = Move reduced by 1/4, +1 cChallenge Level to Dexterity Checks
Moderate = Move reduced by 1/2, +2 Challenge Level to Dexterity Checks
Heavy = Move reduced to 3/4, +4 to Challenge Level for Dexterity Checks, Lose Dexterity Bonus to AC
Overburdened = Move reduced to 1 ft/rnd. Automatically fail all Dexterity based checks, Lose Dex bonus to AC
I think that's everything that was done, comparing my two documents. Some of the EVs were tweaked on the table as well, if memory serves (the backpack was reduced to a 2(w) with a Capacity of 8, is the biggest one that leaps out at me).

I'd do a better comparison of the EVs, but I only have my numbers (the ones that appeared in the 2nd printing)... the Troll Lords ended up using an outdated (or modified by them, not sure which) list for the 1st printing. If need be, I can put out a copy of my list for others... Maybe I'll see if Stephen is willing to put together a ENC section PDF for those w/ the 1st printing... at least if people really think it's that necessary...

[/list]

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Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:00 pm
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Thank you cheeplives,

A very nice summation! It does not seem to be as much as a pain in the neck as it first did when I skimmed through it.

We're probably will be using it starting my next gaming session.

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Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:51 pm
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Quote:
magehammer wrote:
I ignore it, too, but within reason.



yes, it's entirely reasonable to ignore all encumberance. a halfling's gotta eat you know

Jack Deepwell continues to stuff wheels of cheese into his backpack.

ETA: I have always ignored it when I run games as well. I've yet to see a system that's worth dealing with.


Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:07 pm
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Thanks for the support, Weezoh.

And no your are not getting any extra experience points for that support.

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Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:11 pm
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Lore Drake
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Yes, Serleran's little thief put everything but the kitchen sink in his bag of holding at LGGC. Left the kitchen barren except for the magic refridgerator and he tried that too but it wouldn't fit through the mouth of the bag.

As for the encumbrance system. I don't even bother with it. Seems to me, commen sense is adequate (i.e. having Walmart fighters walking around with 10 different kinds of weapons and more than one type of armor is bad).

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Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:03 pm
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I think it's funny that when I first suggested an Encumbrance system for C&C, I suggested one like The Riddle of Steel, which used *gasp* pictures... if your character would look similar to any of these pictures, this is your Encumbrance rating. It's simple, it's elegant, and it fits the "use common sense" rule.

Every. One. Hated. It.

Weird now that the "I just use common sense" is the most often attributed statement...

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Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:32 pm
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Greater Lore Drake
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Quote:
Weezoh wrote:
ETA: I have always ignored it when I run games as well. I've yet to see a system that's worth dealing with.



I tend to like the one I wrote (and available for download), and while I'm not blind to the biggest issue with it (addition using decimals), I use it simply because I like having encumbrance be a little more concrete than the by the book system, which is rather abstract.
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Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:13 pm
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