Played my first game of Castles & Crusades...

Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:50 am

Last night's online game was my first actual sit down with Castles & Crusades (thanks BM!), and I have to say, I had a ton of fun! I'm very happy to find an actively supported old-school, easy and evocative D&D game that I can collect and play.

Looking back on my past few years of gaming, it probably should have been a BIG freakin' warning sign that I tried to take the D&D 3e RPGA gamemaster test three times and failed each time...

Oh well, that's in the past. I have a few questions about C&C...

I have the player's handbook, but I'm not sure if it is first or second printing. Is there anyway to tell? I believe I saw the other version in the bookstore, as it appeared to be a little bit thicker. If I do have first printing, is it worth upgrading? What were the changes between printings?

After last night's game, I have a big list about 200 dollars worth of C&C I will be ordering from my FLGS. Is C&C fun to GM? Third edition was an absolute nightmare for me (complicated and entirely player=superhero centric meant GMing was boring and frustrating). Hackmaster is great fun to GM, but it is currently OOP (and battles always seem to take a pinch too long).

shadoes · Post by **shadoes** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:54 am

I have found it is a blast to run as a CK. And can be whatever you want it to be. I have three different games going right now with three different group dynamics. No trouble adapting to each group. Like all games it takes some time to really learn the rules and I certainly do not have them down yet. But then I have never been afraid to say 'lets look that up' when it comes to that sort of thing.

Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:03 pm

Galadrin wrote:
Looking back on my past few years of gaming, it probably should have been a BIG freakin' warning sign that I tried to take the D&D 3e RPGA gamemaster test three times and failed each time...

Man that's funny...I feel your pain but it's funny.
So first off, welcome to the Crusade and I'm glad to hear you had a good time.

I doubt you have the 1st printing but you might have the 2nd. The fastest way I can tell you (since I don't remember the product numbers on the side) is to look at the experience progression for each class. If they list values for advancing beyond 12th level then you have either the 2nd or 3rd printing. If you do have these numbers and the pages are glossy you've got the 3rd printing (if not, you have the 2nd printing).

As for upgrading, I'd say pick up a newer printing if you have the 1st (the errata was heaviest in that printing and a lot of nice bits are missing). But you may want to contact the Trolls and find out when the 4th printing will hit the streets because I believe it should be soon.

As for C&C...I'm a bit biased of course but I'd say the game is great fun to play and CK. You'll hear this a great deal I imagine but some of the best qualities are:

1- How easily the game can be modified to suit your own tastes.

2- How fast everything flows.

3- How easy the mechanics make the game to play and run. Never have I seen a system which allows so much freedom and yet controls the game so well.

Also, to any interested (I would prefer newcomers but no big deal really) I'm going to be getting rid of some C&C adventures if anybody wants them. They're all great but my group hates pre-written adventures. I sneak one by them from time to time and others I just mine for ideas...so, in the end, I've got several sitting here collecting dust that I wouldn't mind passing on to the C&C curious.

Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:49 pm

As the others have said...welcome. I've found GMing C&C a lot easier than 3.5e and such. A LOT easier...and my players are having more fun. So all in all...a total win around the board.
_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:30 pm

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the game. When I saw your thread title, I started to brace myself for "What a crappy game! BM is the worst GM ever! I want 3 hours of my life back!"

You can tell which printing of the PHB you have by looking at the spine. There is a product number at the bottom. The 3rd printing's number is 80103. The second printing is 30102. I believe the first printing is 8010. However, you can tell you've got the first printing if the product number is not 80103 or 80102.

I've never GMd anything except 1E and C&C. Considering the house rules I used back in my 1E days, the game system is extremely similar to C&C. About the only things different are certain class abilities and using the SIEGE engine. I find it a little harder to GM now, probably because I'm an adult and try much harder to prepare. Also, my brain is filled with useless knowledge that I need for work, so it's tough to squeeze in important gaming-related information. If only I could quit my job...

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:40 pm

Welcome to the Crusade.

As mentioned, the simplest way to tell print differences apart is to look at the product code on the spine. What differences depend on what printing - but, there are no real major alterations: simply clarity of rules, adding in previous errata (ie, fixing what was wrong) and making it easier to read by changing layout. Some of these are rather significant - especially the change of spell format between 1st print and 2nd print, or the mistake print of glossy pages for the 3rd print... but nothing rules-wise, that would generally cause what one might call "an edition." Therefore, you can use any printing with any other printing and still have C&C. That said, if you do have the 1st printing, it is worth updating simply because the 1st print is riddled with grammar problems, errata, and other things which were greatly improved with the 2nd+ print (especially layout to many.)

Other than that, it looks like everyone already answered your other questions.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:59 pm

Glad to hear you had a good introduction to C&C, Galadrin.
In answer to one of your questions, C&C is indeed fun and easy to GM (CK). Combats and other situational challenges go very smoothly. Char-gen is fast and easy making it fun for the players and no burden for you.

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The Highway Man · Post by **The Highway Man** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:29 pm

Welcome, Galadrin!

As I read your post and saw your complaints about superhero-centric D&D, the lengthy combats, rules nightmare and such, I just can tell, right here: you seem to be the perfect customer for C&C.

You seem to be a DM who likes to be in control, wants to be able to put things together on the fly without having to check through tons of rules to do so, maybe likes to houserule once in a while to fit his own DMing tendencies, appreciates "old school adventuring" (characters are farmboys and grow to be full-fledged adventurers, later heroes)...

Yeah. Seems like the game's been written for you, seriously.

Now that said...

Quote:
Looking back on my past few years of gaming, it probably should have been a BIG freakin' warning sign that I tried to take the D&D 3e RPGA gamemaster test three times and failed each time...

WTF?!
They have frakking tests to GM in the RPGA?

shadoes · Post by **shadoes** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:30 pm

The Highway Man wrote:
WTF?!
They have frakking tests to GM in the RPGA?

haha glad I am not the only one who went WTF!

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:32 pm

Call it the "RPGA Bar Exam."

If you pass it, you're qualified to practice DMing and deal with other Rules-Lawyers.
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Sir Fiffergrund, Lord Marshal of the Castle and Crusade Society.

He Who Hides Behind The Elephant's Back

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:46 pm

http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102.html Third printing looks like this.

First and Second printing are thicker and have a slightly different cover design.
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Go0gleplex · Post by **Go0gleplex** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:13 pm

Bar Exam Head: "Mr. So-n-so, you've completely failed ALL of the exam criteria. What gave you the impression you could practice law?"

Mr. So-n-so: "Simply this sir. I've spent the last 10 years DMing D&D 3e, 3.5e, and lately 4e."

Bar Exam Head (visibly shocked): "Hmmph. Well. It is only a test and in light of this revelation... WELCOME to the legal profession Sir."

_________________
The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:29 pm

Fiffergrund wrote:
Call it the "RPGA Bar Exam."

If you pass it, you're qualified to practice DMing and deal with other Rules-Lawyers.

Uh oh! I passed it, the first time. Then decided all the extra paper work wasn't worth my time. About 2 years later I realized the whole frikking game was too much paperwork and not worth my time.

I still have my card though.

But yeah, it was worth being able to deal with rules lawyers. Until I burned out and decided the whole game wasn't for me. Just bits and pieces. So C&C has turned out to be the perfect system for me. I just wish it hadn't taken 20 years to come along.

Then again, if it hadn't I may not have been ready to realize C&C was the perfect game for me.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:39 pm

As everyone has stated so well, welcome to the Crusade.

I would like to say that if you have some experience GMing D&D, then you should find everything about doing so for C&C an absolute breeze. GMing C&C has made my life as GM much easier, especially with coming up with concepts/ideas/add-lib statistics, on the fly so much easier to do then other versions of D&D and v3.5 fantasy role playing.

-O
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The Highway Man · Post by **The Highway Man** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:15 pm

So this whole exam-thingy is just a test to know how well you know the rules?

And THAT ALONE is the criteria for Game Mastery?

cinderblock · Post by **cinderblock** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:34 pm

Welcome to the Crusade! Glad you liked your first game!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:37 pm

The Highway Man wrote:
So this whole exam-thingy is just a test to know how well you know the rules?

And THAT ALONE is the criteria for Game Mastery?

Pretty much. Its been a few years, so I don't remember the questions, but I think its accurate to say they tested your rules knowledge.

Plus you had forms to fill out for any event you ran, which you could even do with your home group. The benefits were kind of nice, but not nice enough to keep me/us doing it.

If you want to find out I think there is a RPGA DM test still up.
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Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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Troll Lord Games

Played my first game of Castles & Crusades...

Played my first game of Castles & Crusades...

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