2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:17 pm

Within the 2008 edition of the Free RPG Day Castles & Crusades Quick Start Rules, there are some changes to weapon damage (again). To anybody who happens to know, do you think that this might be errata for QSII, or will damage be changing again for the PHB 4th printing?

Perhaps Mr. Gideon Underscore Thorne might be able to enlighten us, or anybody else who might be in the know.

-O
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:40 pm

*spreads hands* No idea.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:42 pm

Those Trolls are never happy -- always changing everything. I think this is their way of having "editions" without reprinting everything.

Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:31 pm

I'm thinking of adopting super-basic weapon damage... I don't like players fiddling for the highest average damage. Maybe everything does 1d6 damage, with longswords and battle axes doing 1d8 (for fighters only).

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:45 pm

Why have weapons at all? Just say -- you do 1d6, you can nibble, lick, punch, stab, or shoot... doesn't matter. Everything is equivalent.

Its very simple, yes. Somewhat boring, too.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:46 pm

*waves hand in disgust*

Gah! The lot'uv ya.

Somebody get those editors Nicole and Mark to answer this derned question!

GAH!

-O
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Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:48 pm

Ah, I never thought it was boring in OD&D! You youngsters and your fancy variable weapon damage! Why, I remember when Elf was a class and we liked it!

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:37 pm

Do you also remember when you had to be in base contact before you could strike? Or, when you had to use a piece of string measured to a certain length to gauge distance and, thereby, accuracy? Do you remember how no game ever captured the awesome power of the Roman Legionnaire? Yeah. Me either.

Oh, and in my games, elf is still a class.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 am

serleran wrote:
Oh, and in my games, elf is still a class.

Ditto.

Oh, and do you remember when in order to see who actually won a battle, blood must be spilt? I DO!

-O
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Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:36 am

serleran wrote:
Why have weapons at all? Just say -- you do 1d6, you can nibble, lick, punch, stab, or shoot... doesn't matter. Everything is equivalent.

Its very simple, yes. Somewhat boring, too.

Well, whatever. THAT comment, was unnecessary
If a dude likes his six-siders, no need to grief him. What's fun about a combat to me is how descriptive it is. When everyone has the 2d4 weapons, that suspension of disbelief gets stretched a bit... much better is it when each character has a unique weapon that is iconic and representative of him or her. All in my humble opinion, of course

ThrorII · Post by **ThrorII** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:47 am

Galadrin wrote:
Ah, I never thought it was boring in OD&D! You youngsters and your fancy variable weapon damage! Why, I remember when Elf was a class and we liked it!

And all dungeon crawls were up hill, both ways, in the snow!!!!

And we were so poor that the fighter could only afford ringmail.

And when we killed the orc for his iron bound chest, he only had coal in it. AND WE WERE HAPPY!!!!

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:15 am

Omote wrote:
To anybody who happens to know, do you think that this might be errata for QSII, or will damage be changing again for the PHB 4th printing?

Are you TRYING to give me more work to do? Errata for quickstarts...*mutters*

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:21 am

Hey buddy, YOU of all people should know that I'm not. BUUUT, I can't help but notice these things. Yell at the Trolls. And yell at Serleran extra hard because it's the right thing to do.

-O
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tex · Post by **tex** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:08 pm

Galadrin wrote:
I'm thinking of adopting super-basic weapon damage... I don't like players fiddling for the highest average damage. Maybe everything does 1d6 damage, with longswords and battle axes doing 1d8 (for fighters only).

I do something similar for my own in-house system, except that I do preserve some of the variability of weapons & equipment. Here's how it would work in a C&C game:

There are only five classes of melee weapons according to how much damage they do -

d4, d6, d8, d10, d12

They have no extra properties beyond the damage die, except that the d12 class can't be used one-handed. That is, for gameplay purposes there's no such thing as reach and so on.

The character types have proficiency with the classes of weaponry as suitable for their class, with only Fighters (and arguably Barbarians) gaining proficiency with the d12 class.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:44 pm

Omote wrote:
Hey buddy, YOU of all people should know that I'm not. BUUUT, I can't help but notice these things. Yell at the Trolls. And yell at Serleran extra hard because it's the right thing to do.

-O

Yell at Serleran? That sounds like fun. Yell at the Trolls though? Dunno about that. Getting them drunk sounds more their speed.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:51 pm

Quote:
If a dude likes his six-siders, no need to grief him.

Let me paraphrase you, again: Well, whatever.

I was not "griefing" anyone. I simply said that I find the lack of variance boring -- but that does not mean someone else does. If you enjoy d6 damage for everything, yay. I'm sure you have a great time. I would not -- or, I'd just play a magic-user so I'd have something other than a d6.

Its weird though... I have no problem rolling just a d20 for TORG, or just a d6 for Shadowrun. I wonder what it is about "D&D" that I find variable dice more interesting. Ahh, but, yes, in those games, weapons and so forth still have variation... it is not standardized, and your choices have an impact.

Maybe that's what "bugs me." With a flat d6 system, it feels stifling, to me. Choice becomes irrelevant. I can't choose to use weaker weapons, and I can't choose to use stronger ones -- no matter what I do, its the same.

Hmm.... will have to reflect on that.

So, If anything, I'm griefing myself.

But, umm, back OT for this post. I still think its the Trolls liking to change things. I don't think they're ever going to be satisfied with the numbers.

Galadrin · Post by **Galadrin** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:34 pm

Hi serleran, I just felt your tone was a little caustic. I guess it must have been my imagination, so no worries!

Anyway, the simplistic damage system I was thinking of was actually a little more exciting than I suggested. Following the liberating framework of RPGs like "Spirit of the Century", each weapon itself would be a keyword to indicate how it should be used. Example: Halberds can be used to pull riders from their mounts (perhaps a Strength check), greatswords can be used to cut through spear shafts, flails can be used to ensnare weaponry and swords can be used to riposte.

Ultimately, in all the number crunching and variable damage dice, Gary never really got to the root of what makes the Glaive-Guisarme a "superior" weapon.

I guess the problem is that people don't usually handicap themselves with a mechanically weaker weapon. Even if they do for the sake of a unique character concept, the stress of these competing desires (for an evocative character and a playable character) shouldn't be present.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:38 pm

Ahh, well, if you're going to have weapons that "do" different things, like one that trips, or one that splinters shields... I'd be into that! I likes me some options.

Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Maybe some of these weapon special abilities could or will be covered in the upcoming Castellan's Guide to Arms & Armor.
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Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:52 pm

Omote wrote:
Within the 2008 edition of the Free RPG Day Castles & Crusades Quick Start Rules, there are some changes to weapon damage (again). To anybody who happens to know, do you think that this might be errata for QSII, or will damage be changing again for the PHB 4th printing?

Finally got round to checking into this by comparing this years version with last years... the weapon damage dice are exactly the same. My guess is that no alterations were made between this year and last to the equipment tables in the Quick Start Rules; therefore, whatever errors (or intentional differences) were manifest last year remain.
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2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)

2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)

Re: 2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)

Re: 2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)

Re: 2008 Quick Start Rulez (Weapon Damage)