Least favorite class

[phadeout]

You would think that with all the time, for a long time, that people have had issues with certain classes (Barbarian!) that there would be a bloody (no pun intended) errata for it....
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[Fiffergrund]

That wouldn't be errata, it would be a revision.

There's a distinction between something printed in error and something that just stinks.

The only real choices are: new revision of the class (effectively creating a new edition of the rules) or we can just house rule until we're content.
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[old school gamer]

I think the reason why the Babarian may have been designed the way it was because in 3E Fighters are said to so outclassed by the Barbarian. I don't really care much for the Barbarian, mainly because the Primal Fury thing doesn't even appear until you reach third level.

I actually voted for Illusionist because I don't really care for subtle characters.

[Arioch]

Barbarian, not because I don't' like the C&C class, but because I don't care for the barbarian class in any game for the most part

Ken
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[gideon_thorne]

Mac Golden wrote:
What is your least favorite class, and why?

The C&C version of the bard. I know what the intent was, but I prefer my versions more akin to the druidic lore masters. Probably why I re wrote it. ^_~`
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Peter Bradley

[gideon_thorne]

phadeout wrote:
You would think that with all the time, for a long time, that people have had issues with certain classes (Barbarian!) that there would be a bloody (no pun intended) errata for it....

Its not errata in this case. Its personal preference.
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Peter Bradley

[Treebore]

There are several versions of the Barbarian around.
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[Zudrak]

Akrasia wrote:
The Barbarian. Mechanically it's an absurdly weak class (I can't understand why anyone would choose it over the fighter or ranger). Conceptually, the idea of a 'barbarian' is a cultural one, not a professional one, IMO.

I agree, and voted thusly. I prefer the UA-ized barbarian that Ghul came up with awhile back.
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[BLOOD AXE]

Treebore wrote:
Monk is the one I chose. No one has even considered playing the Monk in any of my games for more then a couple fo minutes.

The Knight is actually pretty effective once he gets a couple of levels under his belt. Horsemanship definitely does not work in dungeons either.

Barbarian has great flavor, but I agree he does not have much mechanical strength.

Ditto. Nobody wants to play the Monk where I am. He just seems out of place. I prefer to keep him for the Scarlet Brotherhood & the like.

Kung-fu on a Wight just doesnt seem to work.

[Arioch]

hmm we've had a monk in just about every game we've played since the begin as play tester.

ken
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[BLOOD AXE]

Arioch wrote:
hmm we've had a monk in just about every game we've played since the begin as play tester.

ken

Ok? And??

How did it work out??

[Arioch]

And the monk works out well as a member of the party. We've never had a problem with the monk. actually we haven't had a problem with any of the character classes.As I stated earlier the barbarian is our least favourite character class, but it doesnt' have to do with teh class as written, just that our group doesnt' care for barbarians in general no matter which system we use. I was just surpriosed at how many peopel didn't liek the monk

Ken
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[Mac Golden]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I guess I will.

Regarding monks, you have to remember that "monks" are not just the baddies in the scarlet robes.

Monks are pugilists in the broadest sense. One of my current favorite characters is my monk, Stone, in Todd Gray's current campaign. Like his name, he is a massive barrel of a man, looking like he walked out of a Jack Kirby comic. His gigantic fists have pummeled many an orc and ogre. He has nothing to do with martial arts, eastern philosophy, walking on coals, or being called "grasshopper." Quite the opposite, as he is a rather ribald jokester from the lower slums of the city.

[Lord Dynel]

Mac Golden wrote:
Not to hijack my own thread, but I guess I will.

Regarding monks, you have to remember that "monks" are not just the baddies in the scarlet robes.

Monks are pugilists in the broadest sense. One of my current favorite characters is my monk, Stone, in Todd Gray's current campaign. Like his name, he is a massive barrel of a man, looking like he walked out of a Jack Kirby comic. His gigantic fists have pummeled many an orc and ogre. He has nothing to do with martial arts, eastern philosophy, walking on coals, or being called "grasshopper." Quite the opposite, as he is a rather ribald jokester from the lower slums of the city.

Excellent post, Mac. I think that's a big trap a lot of people fall into - I know, I've done it for several years (and continue to do so at times - classifying the monk as an oriental martial arts spiritual chap. I try to keep an open mind when thinking about the monk as a general pugilist and all-around tough guy. Your description is a great one to use to visualize such a class.

[/butt kissing]

[Buttmonkey]

I like the conception of the monk as a boxer-type, but I'm not sure how well a PC disassociated from Eastern martial arts will fit with the class powers like quivering palm, arrow deflection, and faking death (sorry, don't have my PHB with me and I can't remember the proper names for all of the class abilities).

[Lord Dynel]

I don't know...deflecting arrows/missile weapons might not e too difficult to explain. I can see some big bruiser swatting away arrows with a "get that sh*t outta my way," look about him.

The other two might call for more "creative" means.

[Arioch]

quivering palm becomes fist to nose and the shattered bone penetrates the brain and kills them
Ken
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WWBYD What would Brigham Young do ?
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[DangerDwarf]

Change the name to Rupture, and get rid of the "willing" the target to die. The target suffers massive internal damage from some heavy body shots and bleeds out internally in 1d10 rounds.

[DangerDwarf]

Oh, and monks might call it "Still Body", but back alley fighters from the slums call it "playing possum".

[mmtbb]

I think a lot of people get caught up on how a monk doesn't belong in fantasy with its oriental flavor. It all depends on how they are introduced to the campaign, and how well they are roleplayed. Players in my campaign love the monk class.

[Hrolfgar]

I voted against the assassin, to me it seems to be better suited as a npc class. I like the C & C version better than the old 1st ed AD&D version. I recall back in high school, someone younger brother always played an assassin. We always killed that character
I actually kinda like barbarian and knight classes. And the C&C monk.

[jeff]

I said the barbarian. Like others have said mechanically it needs too much tweaking and it's more cultural than occupational.

HS Guidance Counselor: Well Jimmy, looking at your SAT scores, have you ever considered a career in professional barbarism?
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[Lord Dynel]

I voted a while back, for the knight, but listening to recent conversation, I've come to a few conclusions (that also helps me better understand my own decision )

I originally said the knight was too niche. I still think that he's a bit too niche, and that what he does a knight and/or paladin could do just as well.

But I really see why people pick monk and barbarian. Recently, I worked on some zero-level rules for C&C. In those rules, characters could "attempt" actions by other characters. When I got to barbarian I came to a problem - what actions could one "perform" that were barbarian-like? Mechanically, they have abilities, but they result from the classes lifestyle, not training. It was an interesting obstacle.

For monks, there isn't a cultural boundary to overcome, or at least not at first glance. They have an eastern flavor, which is definitely a cultural thing. But you don't become a monk by lifestyle/cultural choices...in other words, it is possible to become a monk, through training, not because that's what you are.

Why am I saying all of this? I don't know, really. I think my choice to pick the knight was because it's kind of like the monk - it fits into a cultural niche, but similar to the way monks do. Fortunately for the knight, the cultural niche is that of eastern medieval Europe - the basis of most fantasy rpgs - and more specifically, C&C. However, I find myself liking monks and barbarians more than knights. I think that's because of my whole reason I chose Knight as my least favorite class in the first place - the Knight fills a purpose that can be filled (with little effort) by a paladin or a fighter. I think out of all the classes, the knight is the class that can be replicated the easiest.

Thanks for listening for my ramblings!

[Fizz]

Lord Dynel wrote:
But you don't become a monk by lifestyle/cultural choices...in other words, it is possible to become a monk, through training, not because that's what you are.

See, by that argument, i'd stick with the barbarian being the oddball, because you can train to become a knight.

Historically, knight training began from an early age, starting as page, then squire, and finally knight. Knight as a profession is different from merely being `knighted'.

But is it possible to train to become a barbarian?

I think the aspect of choice and training is really a good way of looking at it. If you can train to do it, it might be a worthy class.

-Fizz

[Julian Grimm]

I voted Monk. It's the one class that just doesn't fit into what the game is trying to do. I have always disagreed with an eastern style monk being in a game of western style fantasy. It only works if you want to play a fantasy version of Kung-Fu.

Barbarian would be a close second due to it's mechanical failings and need for a revison.
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