Troll Lord Games

OK, I like how Babbage put it. I think I'll do it that way from now on.

Man, this thread has been busy, and I think we are pulling at it in so many different directions that it is getting frayed. Yet at the root, this thread is more than just racial abilities; it is about how to use the SIEGE engine.

In a thread somewhere I mentioned an old game Id wish I could get more people to play, Everway. I misused some of the terms, but they are worth bringing up again, so I fished out my Everway book to get the terminology right. I think if we address what it is were doing, we can make sense of this. Please humor me.

Everway used three criteria, called Laws, for task resolution: Karma, Drama, and Fortune. I believe we can benefit by identifying with these. Here is what they are and how they would work in C&C. Youll find you already use these in your game; Im just giving them a name we can refer to.
Karma: This is attribute and ability driven: neither dice nor story. For example: a 15 Str character arm wrestles a 5 Str character. Assuming it is a fair match, the 15 Str character will win every time.
Drama: This is story driven. The player narrates something so cool or smart that you just say yeah, it works. A lot of GMs use the Law of Drama with charisma checks.
Fortune: This is what we are most familiar with; it is the luck of the dice.

Trying to apply the SIEGE engine only to the Law of Fortune is a disservice to it. C&C is not a simulation that tries to factor in a laundry list of skills, pages of charts, or volumes of rules. And Im grateful for that! The SIEGE engine demands that we apply heavy doses of Karma and Drama as well. After all, I dont think we are playing C&C to say (or players to hear): You cant do that.

So what is the hard rule? There is none. The answer is more fluid. If I have three characters a human ranger, elf wizard, and dwarf fighter sneaking into a camp, I might rule that the ranger and elf make it in with no problem using Karma. However, recognizing that conflict makes story interesting, I utilize some Drama to have a nearby guide force the dwarf to make a check, thus throw in some Fortune. If the players used good Drama on their part to sneak in, Ill probably still make the guard succeed in his check to notice. So we have all three Laws taking a part in it. If the situation were different, Id probably use the laws differently.

As you can see, this requires the CK to think on his feet, but thats why I enjoy doing it. I dont need to refer to books, I just need to understand how the three Laws make for a good game and use them liberally. Anyhow, if you made it this far in my long-winded post, thank you for reading. ::steps off soapbox::

Geron Raveneye wrote:
So what this tells me is that elves and half-elves (in wilderness areas) and halflings are treated like rogues where the effect of a successful move silently check is concerned, even if they don't get to add their level to the check. All others are still risking to be discovered by a sharp guard. Rogues have it best, as they add their levels, and get a +2 to that if they are of elven blood or halflings.

I actually think that makes good sense.

This is exactly how I run it, GR. It makes sense to me, too, and I've been running my game this way for several months.

--Ghul

Well, this thread has been busy, and I really want to thank all of those who contributed -- you've help me a good deal in deciding what I'm ultimately going to be doing. For this, this wasn't just another mental excercise, it addressed an actual problem brought to my attention from game one (tonight we are playing game three).

Naturally as a CK, I ruled on the spot and the game continued with hardly a hic-up but it was also something I resolved to look deeper into. What can I say, I've got a body of players who got used to and liked certain aspects of 3.5 and even though they know that my word as a CK is final, they drew comfort from having a rule for every little thing.

Oh and ultimately, this is how I am handling it using the earlier example of the human fighter, elven fighter, and elven rogue:

They can all roll for the attempt... only the rogue gets the +2 as a bonus to his class ability where as the elf fighter gets a roll unmodified... they succeed then fantastic... they are silent as death.

The fighter... try as me must may succeed but you can bet that everything he's trying to sneak up against will get a listen check to detect him.

Most recently it was Geron Raveneye that pointed this out but Serleran definately was following similar logic with his examples. The rest of you helped as well and offered me different points to consider.

I considered the flat +2 but believed that an elven rogue really had the training to improve on his natural gifts and ultimately decided that only the rogue/assassin/ranger should benefit from this little edge.

So thanks again!

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Solid decisions Moriarty! I may be doing the same.

Very glad we were able to be of assistance. Hope you're having lots of fun with your game.

Thanks again... the game is doing quite well, and as for my what became my ruling, with the way I was able to present it (logically and consistantly) the player's where all cool with it. Once again, a sign of how much this thread has helped me clearly define a few things!

We just finished our third session and we had a bunch of more fun! A couple of players were really used to 3.5 but are starting to come around with C&C (deprogramming isn't always easy) and the more they learn to trust and let go, the more they seem to be enjoying themselves.

What started as a two-session intro to the game while one of the current DM's was on vacation turned into a third weekend with the DM playing a Fighter. Everyone seems to be having so much fun that we are continuing next week so that they may continue their current Crusade!

Good times for sure!

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

That's awsome news, Moriarty. Keep converting them to the cause.

R-
_________________
Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind