Troll Lord Games

Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:51 pm**

I have seen others mention house rules that say they get full Hit Points at first level. I just wanted to throw out the house rule that I used to use in D&D (1st to 3rd ed.) that seemed to make low levels much, much more fun to play.

BASIC RULE:

Roll HP as normal (including CON bonuses) per level, but use EITHER your rolled HP or CON score.

RATIONALIZATION:

A *HERO* starts their career with their CON in HP. These hit points are considered your "Body" points (think Champions, if you've ever played it) and kinda represent how tough you are, how hard it is to kill you, etc.

A *HERO* then goes through their career and accumulates "luck" or "level" based HP... but it takes them a few levels, especially if you are in a class that doesn't fight a lot (i.e. wizard). (In Champions, think of these points more like stun and endurance).

Thus, at low levels most characters will have more HP than normal (around 10 instead of around 5), but at higher levels it will all even out and be "normal". This rule gets rid of the super-fragility of most first-level characters, which can be a real drag.

EXAMPLE:

Jon-Bouy the fighter rolls a 12 CON, thus no CON bonus to HP. At first level, he rolls a 7 for HP, so he starts with 12 (his CON) HP. At second level he rolls a 4, giving him 11 HP, so he still uses his 12 CON for HP. At third level he rolls a 6, giving him 17 total HP, so he uses 17 instead of his 12 CON.

OPTIONS:

Characters that are into their "Body" HP (i.e. their HP drop to less than their CON) are "wounded" in some way. For example, they could move slower, or receive a -1 to their rolls, or whatever the GM thinks is appropriate. You could even add a chart to make a random affect, YMMV.

This rule both evens out the advantage that low-level characters receive, and also adds more "realism" (whatever that is) to the game: if you are hurt, it start affecting your ability to do things, etc.

For fairness, monsters should suffer the same problems that heroes have at 2xhit dice or less HP. So an 8 HD creatures reduced to less than 16 hit points would be "wounded."

Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:56 pm**

I've done this:

HP = Constitution score + max for HD type @ level 1

HP = level 1 HP + Constitution modifier (minimum + 1) @ level 2

HP = level 2 HP + random die roll for HD type @ level 3

HP = level 3 HP + random dice roll + Constitution modifier @ level 4+

This makes low level characters more survivable but tends to average out to game assumption normals by about level 5 or 6.

Monsters get 1.5 x maximum HP to compensate.

I don't use this method anymore though.

Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:55 pm**

I used to go with the CON Stat + 1st Hit Die + CON Bonus = starting Hit Points at first level. I even gave 0 Level NPCs their CON in HPs also, which made for some tough NPC guards. I gave all monsters an additional 10 - 18 HPs to make up for this (depending on what I thought their CON should be).

It was funny watching a PC smack an Orc for 12 or so points of damage and looked surprised when it was still standing after the first hit.

Now I just max out starting HPs based on the die type, plus the CON Bonus.
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Posted: **Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:52 pm**

imneuromancer wrote:
I have seen others mention house rules that say they get full Hit Points at first level. I just wanted to throw out the house rule that I used to use in D&D (1st to 3rd ed.) that seemed to make low levels much, much more fun to play.

BASIC RULE:

Roll HP as normal (including CON bonuses) per level, but use EITHER your rolled HP or CON score.

RATIONALIZATION:

A *HERO* starts their career with their CON in HP. These hit points are considered your "Body" points (think Champions, if you've ever played it) and kinda represent how tough you are, how hard it is to kill you, etc.

A *HERO* then goes through their career and accumulates "luck" or "level" based HP... but it takes them a few levels, especially if you are in a class that doesn't fight a lot (i.e. wizard). (In Champions, think of these points more like stun and endurance).

Thus, at low levels most characters will have more HP than normal (around 10 instead of around 5), but at higher levels it will all even out and be "normal". This rule gets rid of the super-fragility of most first-level characters, which can be a real drag.

EXAMPLE:

Jon-Bouy the fighter rolls a 12 CON, thus no CON bonus to HP. At first level, he rolls a 7 for HP, so he starts with 12 (his CON) HP. At second level he rolls a 4, giving him 11 HP, so he still uses his 12 CON for HP. At third level he rolls a 6, giving him 17 total HP, so he uses 17 instead of his 12 CON.

OPTIONS:

Characters that are into their "Body" HP (i.e. their HP drop to less than their CON) are "wounded" in some way. For example, they could move slower, or receive a -1 to their rolls, or whatever the GM thinks is appropriate. You could even add a chart to make a random affect, YMMV.

This rule both evens out the advantage that low-level characters receive, and also adds more "realism" (whatever that is) to the game: if you are hurt, it start affecting your ability to do things, etc.

For fairness, monsters should suffer the same problems that heroes have at 2xhit dice or less HP. So an 8 HD creatures reduced to less than 16 hit points would be "wounded.

Not a bad rule, imneuromancer. If you need some extra "beef" at 1st-2nd levels, then it is definitely a decent option!

I've toyed with using the max hit points + Con modifier at first level house rule, but I think going by the book (for my first campaign) was the best way, for me. I wanted to get the feel for the game, and so I changed very little. I went with a house rule of "if you roll a '1' on hit points, you may reroll rule and added to a few perks to monk, but other than that, I'm playing the rules as written. I think that the 3d6 for ability scores, the straight rolls for hit points, and the no rampant extra attacks really harkens back to a simpler time, to an "ordinary people can become heroes" time that I loved so much growing up.

But don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I'm not knocking your method by any means, good sir, as I think it's pretty decent and workable idea. Definitely fitting for the "hero" game.

Posted: **Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:23 pm**

Lord Dynel wrote:
But don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I'm not knocking your method by any means, good sir, as I think it's pretty decent and workable idea. Definitely fitting for the "hero" game.

I played a little OD&D recently, and first and second levels are just BRUTAL in the "old skool" systems. Realistically one bad round can TPK, and it is certainly a pretty dangerous place for a 1st level character whose chances of surviving a single hit from a kobold is 50/50.

There is a certain poetry to the "old skool" way, but it can be really annoying. The only saving grace to it is that characters are so easy to roll up that even WHEN (practically not IF) you die, it is easy to roll another one.

My personal opinion is that I really, really like low-level campaigns, but the fragility of low-level characters can take the steam out of role-playing if there is constant character death. Besides, I don't want to worry if there is going to be a TPK because of a couple of bad rolls, which can definitely happen in OD&D.

.

The reason I always liked the system I laid out above is that, being a Champions fan, I always liked the idea of HP being very abstract "stun" that can regenerate between encounters much easier (kinda like 4e) but "body" is much harder to regain.

In one campaign, we had the house rule that you pretty much get all of your HP above your CON back after 8 hours of sleep/rest. However, if you got "wounded" into your "body" HP (i.e. below your CON) then you only got those back at 1 HP/day, plus CON bonus at the end of the week.

Of course, that was also a low-cleric campaign, so that rule made sense and affected the party. With a lot of clerics running around, the difference between "body" and "stun" HP becomes less substantial and therefore I didn't include it in my original post.

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:22 am**

I certainly agree that early levels are especially brutal in previous editions of (A)D&D and in C&C. I think that they follow the concept of "you're a normal fellow making your name in the world" as opposed to the 4e, and to some extent 3.x, method of "you are destined for great things." Your method, I would say, falls into the latter category. It gives the players a break, puts them a cut above when starting out. There's nothing wrong with that, and you method is very usable in the latter situation I described.

I didn't, in any way, want you to feel like I was attacking or deconstructing your house rule. As I said, it is very interesting and I could see myself using something like this, especially in games with few players where the extra boost at the early levels are important.

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:54 pm**

Lord Dynel wrote:
I didn't, in any way, want you to feel like I was attacking or deconstructing your house rule.

Please, attack or deconstruct away! An idea that does not stand up to the bright light of scrutiny is not a good idea. Of course, it always helps to be polite (at which the people of this board-- and this thread-- seems to excel.... this is one of the best boards I have ever posted on).

Posted: **Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:53 pm**

imneuromancer wrote:
Please, attack or deconstruct away! An idea that does not stand up to the bright light of scrutiny is not a good idea. Of course, it always helps to be polite (at which the people of this board-- and this thread-- seems to excel.... this is one of the best boards I have ever posted on).

Hehe...since we're not on the WotC website, I'll probably not be attacking anyone. I don't know, but site brings out the worst in me - and most other posters. But, I digress...

The main reason I cannot attack or deconstruct is because it's not too bad! Take that as a compliment. It just comes down to what power level you want to have at the low level game. Mechanically, it's pretty sound.

Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:50 pm**

I n my C&C campaign I use Con. stat + rolled hit die for starting hp. I do not use the bonus for Hp you just get the dice when you go up +your con stat. At 10th level I give each character there con stat. in HP again . So a fighter with a 16 con starts with 16 + a d10. At 10th level he gets 32 + 10d10.

I also have players re-roll the dice part of their Hp before each adventure. This way no one gets saddled with low Hp for ever , it also can simulate a character being sick or getting a good nights rest by the result of the roll.
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Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:20 pm**

Valerian wrote:
I n my C&C campaign I use Con. stat + rolled hit die for starting hp. I do not use the bonus for Hp you just get the dice when you go up +your con stat. At 10th level I give each character there con stat. in HP again . So a fighter with a 16 con starts with 16 + a d10. At 10th level he gets 32 + 10d10.

I also have players re-roll the dice part of their Hp before each adventure. This way no one gets saddled with low Hp for ever , it also can simulate a character being sick or getting a good nights rest by the result of the roll.

I use about the same, the reroll idea is a good one for sleep simulation (how did u sleep? ,roll.) I may yank that idea for a bit o spice.
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Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:03 am**

I'd like the idea of an option that gives CK a lever to make the game a bit less lethal for players. Body/Stun is a great idea: where body takes a while to regenerate (very slow) and stun very little time at all (for heroes at least). At least for those of us who are looking for more of a cinematic style game.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:34 am**

You could do it something like the Star Wars Revised Edition way:

Body points= Constitution

Roll for hps normally. Any wound that reduces your hps to lower than zero goes into Body points.

A critical hit, instead of doing double damage, automatically inflicts Body damage.

Or something like that, its been a while since I've played it.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:35 am**

OOps sorry for double post

Add to the above

Recover your hit die type+con modifier for a full 8 hours rest.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:03 pm**

i allow characters to recover 25% of their max possible HP for their level , anumber of times per day = to 1 + their con. mod. So a fighter with an 18 con at 8th level (18 +8d10 ) would recover 24 HP 4times a day. See my post above for how i do HP.
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What is best in life-

To crush the PC's

See their character sheets piled before you

And to hear the lamentations of the players

-Conan the dungeonmaster

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:31 pm**

I generally give PCs max hp's based on their class, and then give them a bonus 2d4. Helps survivability at the lower levels.

Druw

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:19 pm**

For me, BTB.

-O
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:26 pm**

I give max HP for first level then have folks roll as they level.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:08 pm**

Con score+full hit die.
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:16 pm**

bighara wrote:
I give max HP for first level then have folks roll as they level.

+1
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:19 pm**

vivsavage wrote:
What do you use for the hit points of a 1st level character? Do you use the rules as written, or have you modified starting HP?

As Bighara does, max class HP + CON bonus (if any) at 1st level. PCs roll normally as they level up.

Since I allow multiclass PCs, 1st level is max HP for each class divided by 2, + CON bonus. On leveling up, roll HP for each class, divide by 2 + CON bonus.
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:24 pm**

Maliki wrote:
+1

+2
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:38 pm**

Julian Grimm wrote:
Con score+full hit die.

bighara wrote:
I give max HP for first level then have folks roll as they level.

Yep and yep.

Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:34 pm**

Nothing fancy here - max HP plus con bonus. Just have to scale and pace encounters appropriately.
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Posted: **Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:28 pm**

At level 1 -- roll the die, and add your modifiers. Minimum HP = 1. No negative HP rules, either; you die at zero.

At level advancement, if you have opted to train, you have the possibility of earning a die re-roll. But, you still take what you get.
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Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:54 am**

Newbies get max hp + con at 1st level, roll btb afterword. Replacement characters roll btb . Everyone gets one reroll that can be used for any attribute , hit points, or starting money ( you keep the best score ). So far most players rerolled for more money.

Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:33 pm**

To clarify - I only give the max at first level, since survival is so tough in the beginning anyway. After that, break out the dice!
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Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:11 pm**

gideon_thorne wrote:
+2

+3
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Posted: **Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:27 pm**

gideon_thorne wrote:
+2

Rgr this

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Starting Hit Points

Starting Hit Points

Re: Starting Hit Points