Hello to everybody, I'm new to the forum and C&C.
I'm a gamer from the moldvay-Cook times and have chosen C&C as my Fantsy game of choice because I found it to have an elegant and intelligent game design that perfectly suits my fantasy gaming tastes.
I finally choose to de-lurk after finally getting my copy of the rules.
After reading the Player's HB and M&T I'm going to run my first game in a week time (i'll probably run the Sentinel- Gauntlet mini-campaign by TSR UK).
In this post I'd like to point out the only inconsistencies I've found to be bothering in the game nad propose some solutions for an eventual next print-run:
1) Race abilities: it's never clearly stated if level adds to checks that pertain racial abilities, I think this hould made clear when this is the case.
(I've seen some threads about this point but I thought that it was important to point it out again)
2)Treasure Encumberance: How much EV is a gem? and 10 gp? 100gp?1000gp? A CK worth its name can make it on the fly but a note on this would be nice.
2b) Encumberance: No carrying capacity is given for animals and monsters. How much weight can a horse carry?
3)Using magic items: By the M&T book as written any class can use wands and staves. Is that correct? In D&D access to those and other magic items was restricted.
3b) Scrolls (in the Rules As Written): While Rogues are allowed to decipher magical writing they are never said to be able to use the spell on the scrolls.
4)Creating magic items through money instead of experience expense: M&T as written makes many distinctions about magic item types based on activation (completion, trigger...) unless you have -or know- D&D 3.x you may have some difficulties determining what type of item is each item as rules distinctions for activation types are never given.
5)Ability drain: What's the effect on a monster (stat-less) of ability damage? A sword of wounding deals 1 Constitution point of damage, whta's the effect on a monster?
I hope my notes will be of help
Best Regards
Artikid
Hello and an analysis of C&C
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moriarty777
- Renegade Mage
- Posts: 3735
- Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Montreal, Canada
Welcome to the Crusade... be sure to let us know how your first campaign goes. You've certainly pointed out some of the more interesting things. Some of which I had never thought of since they never come up such as point 5. I'd certainly be curious how other have handled it.
This is how I'd handle it: For game related purposes, I'd tag a cumulative -1 penalty for saves/checks to anything the monster has to roll that could be related to Constitution (like a Poison save). I would also take off an additional hitpoint of damage. Should the creature suffer a total of 12 hits (maybe more depending on the creature), they've dropped to zero constitution.
As for point 1... different people seem to run it different ways. It's just one of those things that seems to come up. In my case, I don't add levels to racial ability checks since levels to me would indicate 'training'. But I also don't have the players roll for every single thing either.
M
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This is how I'd handle it: For game related purposes, I'd tag a cumulative -1 penalty for saves/checks to anything the monster has to roll that could be related to Constitution (like a Poison save). I would also take off an additional hitpoint of damage. Should the creature suffer a total of 12 hits (maybe more depending on the creature), they've dropped to zero constitution.
As for point 1... different people seem to run it different ways. It's just one of those things that seems to come up. In my case, I don't add levels to racial ability checks since levels to me would indicate 'training'. But I also don't have the players roll for every single thing either.
M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"
Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com
First off, welcome to the Crusade!
As to your points...
1- Race abilities are siege rolls which always add level unless specified otherwise (such as a fighter checking to see if he can "move quietly"). There is a pretty large section in the PHB regarding siege rolls, what they are, how to use them, etc. I don't think it needs to be stated over and over that you add level unless you're told not to.
2- This can be figured out with the information provided in the PHB but I agree that it would be nice to have the EV of coins and gems (in general).
2b- Carrying capacity for anything a player is likely to ride is given in M&T. Creatures don't have it but it's simple enough to assume str and con scores and go from there.
3- By the book, anyone can use them. It's one of the many things that are left open in C&C on purpose so you can decide what to change (if anything).
3b- According to the scroll description in M&T, once the scroll is deciphered (usually by casting read magic) the scroll can be used. The rogue simply has the ability to decipher (and thus use) a scroll without the need for read magic.
4- I agree that the magic item creation rules could use an overhaul. I use them as a base and then just come up with what the player needs to do, spend, etc. So I wouldn't mind seeing some clarification here.
5- By the book, not a thing. This is why Ray of Enfeeblement was changed from the 1st printing of the PHB (it used to just reduce your str score by a number of points which was worthless against creatures). So you can use that spell to get an idea of what you might want those types of items to do to a creature. I'm pretty sure this is another area where C&C was left open to allow you to do what you wanted.
Of course, all of the above was written "by the book." The real answer to any style question in C&C is, if you don't like it that way do it another way. One of the greatest things about C&C is the ability of the CK to change just about anything without having the rest of the system come tumbling down.
As to your points...
1- Race abilities are siege rolls which always add level unless specified otherwise (such as a fighter checking to see if he can "move quietly"). There is a pretty large section in the PHB regarding siege rolls, what they are, how to use them, etc. I don't think it needs to be stated over and over that you add level unless you're told not to.
2- This can be figured out with the information provided in the PHB but I agree that it would be nice to have the EV of coins and gems (in general).
2b- Carrying capacity for anything a player is likely to ride is given in M&T. Creatures don't have it but it's simple enough to assume str and con scores and go from there.
3- By the book, anyone can use them. It's one of the many things that are left open in C&C on purpose so you can decide what to change (if anything).
3b- According to the scroll description in M&T, once the scroll is deciphered (usually by casting read magic) the scroll can be used. The rogue simply has the ability to decipher (and thus use) a scroll without the need for read magic.
4- I agree that the magic item creation rules could use an overhaul. I use them as a base and then just come up with what the player needs to do, spend, etc. So I wouldn't mind seeing some clarification here.
5- By the book, not a thing. This is why Ray of Enfeeblement was changed from the 1st printing of the PHB (it used to just reduce your str score by a number of points which was worthless against creatures). So you can use that spell to get an idea of what you might want those types of items to do to a creature. I'm pretty sure this is another area where C&C was left open to allow you to do what you wanted.
Of course, all of the above was written "by the book." The real answer to any style question in C&C is, if you don't like it that way do it another way. One of the greatest things about C&C is the ability of the CK to change just about anything without having the rest of the system come tumbling down.
Welcome, Please feel free to say hi up on the general board. As jackal stated no rule is truly BtB. I found the hardest thing rules wise was forgeting the "other rules" but once u do, it flys. It is a truly great system that you can truly make your own with house rules. In truth id just eyeball encumberance or use the d&d system imo.
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Breakdaddy
- Greater Lore Drake
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Lord Dynel
- Maukling
- Posts: 5843
- Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:00 am
Welcome artikid!
As others have stated, sometimes it's best to make up your own rule if you don't find the rule or find it to your liking.
I've said it before, and it may (or may not) be worth mentioning again - the hardest thing for me to do was to unlearn what I've learned in my 22+ years of gaming (D&D/AD&D...but mostly 3.x). Some of my gaming knowledge/experience have helped me with C&C - it's made adjudicating things a little easier. I made a lot of stuff up back in the "old days." Even though I like 3.x it made me regress, made me lazy, in my ability to come up with a rule if I needed one - it had just about everything spelled out for me and if I didn't know where the rule was I'd take precious game time to find it. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, I just wanted you to hear my viewpoint - what I've learned in my short time here - always feel free to ask a question if you have one, but if you get an answer you don't like, don't be hesitant to change the rule in question.
As others have stated, sometimes it's best to make up your own rule if you don't find the rule or find it to your liking.
I've said it before, and it may (or may not) be worth mentioning again - the hardest thing for me to do was to unlearn what I've learned in my 22+ years of gaming (D&D/AD&D...but mostly 3.x). Some of my gaming knowledge/experience have helped me with C&C - it's made adjudicating things a little easier. I made a lot of stuff up back in the "old days." Even though I like 3.x it made me regress, made me lazy, in my ability to come up with a rule if I needed one - it had just about everything spelled out for me and if I didn't know where the rule was I'd take precious game time to find it. I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, I just wanted you to hear my viewpoint - what I've learned in my short time here - always feel free to ask a question if you have one, but if you get an answer you don't like, don't be hesitant to change the rule in question.
LD's C&C creations - CL Checker, a witch class, the half-ogre, skills, and 0-level rules
Troll Lord wrote:Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.
Welcome, artikid. Glad to have you with us.
Enjoy the game!!
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Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Enjoy the game!!
_________________
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
Count Rhuveinus - Lejendary Keeper of Castle Franqueforte
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax
"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth
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imneuromancer
- Mist Elf
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:00 am
rules dynamics
The good thing and the bad thing about CnC is that monster stats are pretty much the same as 1st (and 2nd) ed. AD&D. This has the following consequences:
1) Heroes and Monsters are kinda dealt with differently in the rules... but are similar enough that you can get by.
2) Monsters are much, much easier to convert/create/import.
So there ya go, pick your poison.
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As to a real quick solution to EXACT monster stats:
Forum members, please correct me if I am wrong, but in general you can assume a base+level for each ability score.
For example, I would suggest each ability is (roughly) 8+HD if non-prime, 12+HD if prime. Adjust downward if necessary (i.e. animal intelligence, etc). mostly, stats rarely make a difference for monsters because their HD bonus to SEIGE checks smooths out the wrinkles of needing individual stats.
For CON drains, for every 2 (or 3) points of CON, take away HD worth of HP (like in 3rd ed.).
For every 2 (or 3) points of STR drain, take away a -1 damage (and maybe -1 to hit).
Other than that, for every 2 points of damage, -1 to SEIGE rolls.
1) Heroes and Monsters are kinda dealt with differently in the rules... but are similar enough that you can get by.
2) Monsters are much, much easier to convert/create/import.
So there ya go, pick your poison.
------
As to a real quick solution to EXACT monster stats:
Forum members, please correct me if I am wrong, but in general you can assume a base+level for each ability score.
For example, I would suggest each ability is (roughly) 8+HD if non-prime, 12+HD if prime. Adjust downward if necessary (i.e. animal intelligence, etc). mostly, stats rarely make a difference for monsters because their HD bonus to SEIGE checks smooths out the wrinkles of needing individual stats.
For CON drains, for every 2 (or 3) points of CON, take away HD worth of HP (like in 3rd ed.).
For every 2 (or 3) points of STR drain, take away a -1 damage (and maybe -1 to hit).
Other than that, for every 2 points of damage, -1 to SEIGE rolls.