Weapon Size Revisited

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Jackal
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Weapon Size Revisited

Post by Jackal »

By default, C&C makes no distinction between a long sword used by a human and a long sword used by a gnome. I'm curious how (or if) people deal with this.

Do you just leave it as is and say a long sword is a long sword (even though a gnome long sword would have to be shorter and weigh less and would be, more or less, a short sword) or do you put some rule in place?

I'm trying to decide whether I want to introduce weapon size restrictions (dwarves must use long sword two-handed while they can't use two-handed swords at all, etc) or just leave it as is. So I'm curious what others do.
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Post by Aladar »

I would guess that this issue may be covered in the upcoming Castellan's Guide to Arms & Armors.
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Post by Rhuvein »

This issue hasn't come up in my game since I don't have any gnome PC and only a halfling who uses a rapier.

But I've played in some games where house rules were used and I've given it some thought.

I would probably allow a gnome with 17-18 STR and 15+ DEX to wield a longsword with full damage. If they didn't have those requirement then, probably a 1d6 for damage.

Same with halflings. I would probable lessen the requirements for dwarves since they tend to be bigger and stronger than those others.

A two handed sword for a gnome - it would be smaller and do less damage.

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Post by voynich »

i reduce damage die type by one category so a d6 becomes a d4. if the weapon does multiple dice, the multiples are retained. the lowest a weapon can be reduced to is 1d3, and some weapons are not modified (sling, for example). this assumes the weapon is going from bigger to smaller, starting at man size. if the weapon is large (an ogre club, for example) the damage die increases. a character can, if the weapon is too large for them, use it, but it must meet two conditions:

1) must be one size larger only (small - medium, medium - large; not small - large)

2) must be used two-handed

if these are met the weapon does it normal damage.

costs depend on where you buy it so that a gnome-made gnome dagger is much cheaper than a human-forged gnome dagger.
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Post by moriarty777 »

Haven't really run into the problem but I suppose this problem wouldn't only extend to weapons now would it? Different sized armor for different races and all that... Besides, this could also impact on how EV works (if you use EV).

On the whole, I've tended to overlook the issue entirely. Armors can be 'adjusted' and hitpoints and damage are an abstraction anyway so no matter what is wielding the longsword -- be it halfling or half-orc, it does 1d8.

In a game that has you going up against fantasy creatures armed with steel and magic, I figure I could be a bit liberal here too!

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Post by DangerDwarf »

I ban the use of longsword by gnomes in my games. In fact, gnomes are only allowed to use pointy sticks. You can't trust those little buggers enough to actually allow them to carry arms.

But, in actuality, I just use a little common sense. A human made longsword will generally be wielded 2 handed by wee folks in my game. And, if you want one made for a halfling, it's a shortsword by our human standards.

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Post by Omote »

I do not make the distinction between small and medium characters. For all intents and purposes the weapons have the same "reach" follwing the rules presented in the C&C PHB for characters fighting different sized oppenents (described under Initiative on page 115 PHB 3rd printing).

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Post by Go0gleplex »

(someone has to say it )

Wasn't weapon size discussed in the Book of Carnal Knowledge?

On a more serious note: I simply use common sense about it.
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Re: Weapon Size Revisited

Post by csperkins1970 »

Jackal wrote:
By default, C&C makes no distinction between a long sword used by a human and a long sword used by a gnome. I'm curious how (or if) people deal with this.

I deal with it kinda like D&D 3.0. I have 3 weapon sizes: S, M and L (just like there are with monster sizes).

Small-sized characters can use small weapons 1-handed and medium weapons 2-handed. They can't use large weapons.

Medium-sized characters can use small or medium weapons 1-handed and large weapons 2-handed.
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Re: Weapon Size Revisited

Post by Jonathan of White Haven »

Jackal wrote:
By default, C&C makes no distinction between a long sword used by a human and a long sword used by a gnome. I'm curious how (or if) people deal with this.

Do you just leave it as is and say a long sword is a long sword (even though a gnome long sword would have to be shorter and weigh less and would be, more or less, a short sword) or do you put some rule in place?

I'm trying to decide whether I want to introduce weapon size restrictions (dwarves must use long sword two-handed while they can't use two-handed swords at all, etc) or just leave it as is. So I'm curious what others do.

In my game, the three Short Peoples (dwarves, halflings and, yes, gnomes) may use a longsword, but they must use it as a two-handed weapon. (Why a dwarf would use a longsword is beyond me, but I guess there's no accounting for taste.) Bastard swords are Right Out. They're heavier than the Short People are!
Essentially, it's a matter of "common sense" (which is rarely common, even in FRPGs.)
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Post by Jackal »

Sound like most do what I've been doing, more or less. In my games, those weapons which require two hands can't be used by small characters. Then I have a list of those weapons which require two hands for small characters (long swords and the like). The only thing I had to do was change how spears work (only the long spear requires two hands for medium sized characters in my game).

And thanks for the answers, I was just curious.
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Post by ThrorII »

I've always ruled that the little-people (halflings and gnomes) cannot use longswords, longspears, and other large type weapons. A halfling longsword is essentially a shortsword, and does 1d6 damage. A gnome shortsword is a dagger, and does 1d4 damage. A halfling dagger is a knife, and does 1d2 damage. They use a spear as a long spear. They can only use shortbows, too.

Basically, I look at the shorties and say, what human-sized weapon could they use reasonably, and assume their own racial design for it would do similar damage.

A gnome (3'6" tall) holding a human short sword (2' long) is the equivilant of a long or bastard sword for him. So the gnomish longsword is the equivilant of a human shortsword. A halfling (3'6") holding a human dagger (8-12") is the equilviant size of a short sword to him.

Seems pretty simple to me. i keep all weapon descriptions in human terms (I run human-centric games). The player may have a gnomish long sword, but it is stated and called a shortsword.

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Post by Traveller »

I think of it this way. Do I want to emulate OD&D and AD&D, which really did not bother with making a distinction about the size of your weapon, or d20, wherein the size of your weapon does matter (unless of course you're using the Book of Erotic Fantasy)?

My answer: Size matters not. Judge me by my size do you?
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Re: Weapon Size Revisited

Post by Matthew »

csperkins1970 wrote:
I deal with it kinda like D&D 3.0. I have 3 weapon sizes: S, M and L (just like there are with monster sizes).

Small-sized characters can use small weapons 1-handed and medium weapons 2-handed. They can't use large weapons.

Medium-sized characters can use small or medium weapons 1-handed and large weapons 2-handed.

That's also how AD&D 2e deals with it, and from where D20 got the idea.
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Re: Weapon Size Revisited

Post by csperkins1970 »

Matthew wrote:
That's also how AD&D 2e deals with it, and from where D20 got the idea.

I had forgotten that... and I played 2nd Edition for 11 years!
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Re: Weapon Size Revisited

Post by Jackal »

Matthew wrote:
That's also how AD&D 2e deals with it, and from where D20 got the idea.

Yup, I cut my teeth on "red box basic" but I played 2e more than anything else, so I do it that way too.
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Post by Matthew »

The AD&D 2e weapons sizes are a bit borked, though. Many horseman's weapons should clearly be rated as small, and the CFHB contradicts the weapon size mechanic. That's why I went for a simpler approach in my Alternative Weaponry document. All the light weapons are one handed for small characters, and all the normal weapons two handed. I need to update that document to include short hafted pole arms, though.
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Post by bulletmeat »

I ended up going Matthew's rout and created my own weapon list with different names, sizes, more realistic weights:

longsword = arming sword = medium size

bastardsword= hand-n-half sword = Large size*

* medium characters with 13+ STR can use one handed, other wise 2H

* small characters with 13+ STR can use, but only two-handed

greatsword = 6 to 8 lbs (more than 8 and you really loose control)

I also decided to add on a trait to gnomes and halflings: Pint-Sized Stature.

This means that they can only use medium and smaller weapons with exception of hand-n-half sword (13+ STR only)

My first real fantasy was with The Hobbit som that's what I am used to.
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Post by Joe »

It's not the size but rather how you use it.
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