d20-style multiclassing

[rabindranath72]

Dear all,

here are rules for d20-style multiclassing. They have undergone a lot of playtesting, and work really well. For those who like d20 multiclassing, it is an easy system. Those who do not, might give it a try; overall, it is not a bad system if under the strict control of the CK, and NOT used as in 3.x

Essentially, my system can be seen as a generalization of the d20 rules to a "multiple XP tables" system.

The system is "autopenalising", considering that in C&C classes are not equal powered at a given level. So, for example, if you used the XP table of Wizards for Fighters, you would be penalising them.

Without further ado:

Each character starts with one class, at the Experience Point Progression (EPP) of the class.

The level of the character is the sum of the levels of all the classes involved. The total Hit Dice is the sum of the Hit Dice of the single classes. The total BtH is the sum of the BtH of the single classes.

Each class level is considered separately for what concerns the class abilities. Saving throws are based on the total character level.

Only classes for which the character has a Prime score can be taken (this means that humans can at most have 3 classes, demihumans 2 classes).

Restrictions of a class take precedence over benefits of the other classes.

EXAMPLE: a Fighter/Wizard cannot cast spells while in armor. A Fighter/Cleric may not be allowed some weapons if his religion prohibits them. A Fighter/Rogue may not use all his roguish abilities if he wears heavy armor.

Addition of another class implies the overall use of the most costly EPP table of the classes involved. The cost of an EPP table is given by the costant increment on the "13+" entry in the EPP table. In case of ties, the EPP table of the current highest level class is used.

EXAMPLE: a 1st level Fighter wants to take one level of Wizard. To effectively become a 2nd level

character (1st level Fighter, 1st Level Wizard) the EPP to consider is the one of the Wizard. So, at 2601 XPs the character will be a Fighter 1/Wizard 1. He will have 1d10+1d4 Hit Dice, +1 BtH, and will not be able to cast spells while in armor. Unless the character decides to join a class with an EPP table which costs more than the Wizard's one, he will use the Wizard table even if he adds a level of another class, or continues in the classes which already has.

EXAMPLE: the character of the previous example is now a Fighter 3/Wizard 5 (therefore an 8th level character). He has 3d10+5d4 Hit Dice, +4 BtH, and uses the Wizard table to advance in either of his classes. After some adventures, he decides to turn Rogue. He will add a 1st level

Rogue to his previous classes as soon as he becomes a 9th level character (at 340,001 XPs). Since the Rogue EPP costs less than the Wizard's, he will still use the Wizard EPP table.

OPTIONS

Classes which have the same Prime cannot be combined (e.g. no Paladin/Knight, or Knight/Bard/Paladin, or Fighter/Ranger etc.).

Addition of a class must be declared before reaching the half-point of the current XP range needed to advance a level, so that the it can be worked in the story.

EXAMPLE: a 1st level Fighter who wants to take another class at 2nd level must declare so before he reaches 1000XPs (since at 2001XPs he would gain a Fighter level).

The character must train with another higher level character (PC or NPC) of the class to be added.

EXAMPLE: the trainer must be at least 3rd level, and he may require some sort of payment.

A penalty on the XP gained (after the half-point XP range is reached, and/or after gaining the new class) can be applied on a per-class basis. The penalty may increase depending on the difference between levels.

EXAMPLE: the CK decides that a 20% XP penalty applies just after a character gains a new class, for each class beyond the first. If the levels between the classes differ by more than one, the penalty doubles. So, a 5th level Fighter adding a 1st level of Wizard would pay a 40% XP penalty.

Cheers,

Antonio

[Laslo Tremaine]

How do skill checks work for the a class like the Rogue?

For example. If you have a Fighter3/Rogue2 and the character is trying to sneak, do they add their character level (5) or just their rogue level (2)?

[moriarty777]

So... just to get one point straight Antonio, the EPP table used is pretty much the highest of the classes the character chooses to multiclass in?

A character who has just reached 5th level as a thief then decideds that he will become a fighter at 6th level -- he will need a total of 34,000 to do so (the difference being 16,000 more to advance from a 5th level thief to a 6th level fighter).

If so... that might work. The only problem I possibly see is, using the example above, at 6th level, a fighter has certain abilities which has boosted the EPP at certain levels but doing the switch (as above), a 1st level fighter doesn't get some of the abilities that warrent the 34,000. In this case, combat dominance.

If the progression among the various classes were divided evenly, meaning that it was a simple doubling up of XP in the EPP tables, then I think this could *really* work. But as you'll notice, certain levels have a bit of a bump when they hit a level where they gain an ability.

I do propose an easy enough solution though: just equalize some of the tables evenly... a fighter's progression might look something like this:

1 ..... 0

2 ..... 2,000

3 ..... 4,000

4 ..... 8,000

5 ..... 16,000

6 ..... 32,000

7 ..... 64,000

8 ..... 128,000

9 ..... 256,000

10 ... 512,000

11 and beyond at a fixed rate each level.

So... using the same example I used, the character in question would have to earn 2,000 xp less.

Just an idea... on the whole though I like it and considering the problems that the current solution has... I think this one *may* trump it!

Thanks for your contribution, I'll have to try it out myself a bit but I may adopt something similar to this (at least as a replacement for Dual Class... there's something about multiclass that I've always found appealing).

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[rabindranath72]

Laslo Tremaine wrote:
How do skill checks work for the a class like the Rogue?

For example. If you have a Fighter3/Rogue2 and the character is trying to sneak, do they add their character level (5) or just their rogue level (2)?

As I wrote in the entry:

Each class level is considered separately for what concerns the class abilities. Saving throws are based on the total character level.

[rabindranath72]

moriarty777 wrote:
A character who has just reached 5th level as a thief then decideds that he will become a fighter at 6th level -- he will need a total of 34,000 to do so (the difference being 16,000 more to advance from a 5th level thief to a 6th level fighter).

Since 6th level costs more for a Fighter rather than for a Rogue, to gain one level of fighter (for a total character level of 6) the Rogue will switch to the Fighter table. And the character will be a 5th level Rogue/ 1st level Fighter, with the pertinent abilities for each level.

The class characteristics which cumulate, like HD and BtH, get added together. For the purpose of saving throws the character is still 6th level.

So, our Rogue 5/Fighter 1 will have less hit points and a lower BtH of a 6th level Fighter, but more than a 6th level Rogue; however, he has paid more XPs than a 6th level Rogue, and has not improved as such.

There is no need to "equalize" the tables, since they are already so, in the sense that the XP table for Fighters is more costly than the one for Rogues, since they are more "powerful" level-wise.

So, when you switch to a more costly table, you are automatically penalising the character.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

Cheers,

Antonio

[GreyLord]

You missed the real multiclassing...it's called Gestalt.

to play Gestalt with PC classes, merely double the XP they need to get to the next level...

It actually plays rather balanced.

[rabindranath72]

GreyLord wrote:
You missed the real multiclassing...it's called Gestalt.

to play Gestalt with PC classes, merely double the XP they need to get to the next level...

It actually plays rather balanced.

I am not interested in "real" multiclassing, really. If I want to play a superhero game, I play with Marvel Superheroes

[Treebore]

Mutants and Masterminds 2E is pretty good too. Of course I'm biased.

[moriarty777]

Hey Antonio,

Ok... I was just making sure that I understood you correctly. Yes... I understand completely, but the point I was trying to make was just to equalize those little bumps you get on the occasional level because they are partly there as certain classes get new abilities.

I'm wasn't suggesting a uniform EPP for all classes... with the Rogue would still have to need more XP to go up a level as he starts using the Figher's table. However, upon consideration, a different balancing issue would come into play by changing the EPP tables to make the progression more systematic and single classed character wouldn't be as balanced as they are now. As I stated before, the more I think about, the more I'm tempted to use this for Dual-Class purposes...

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

As for Gestalt style multi-classing... isn't that what created some of the problems (see previous threads) in the first place?
I'm still trying to work on 'balancing' true-multiclassed characters and maybe the solution is simple (yet painful). Any time I think I come close, I compare a 6th level fighter and the a fighter/thief with the same amount of XP, and it breaks down. If I adapt Antonio's suggestion using the highest EPP chart of the classes... Gestalt style multi-classing still doesn't work well.

Antonio's d20 multiclassing adaptation seems to be a more functional model at this point than gestalt style multi-classing ever has been.

It does give me some more ideas though!

Thanks all!

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

[rabindranath72]

My idea has never been of creating gestalt-type characters!

with the options I give, one can easily "simulate" the classic dual classing and multiclassing rules.

Moriarty, I understand what you mean about "XP bumps", but this is not really an issue, because I look at the "full" XP table. My reasoning is of the "minimax" kind, which in a less formal way, means that I deal with it in a "worst case" way, which is how the method works by switching to the class with the worst progression. And you still have the option to apply XP penalties if you feel so inclined.

Cheers,

Antonio

[GreyLord]

rabindranath72 wrote:
My idea has never been of creating gestalt-type characters!

with the options I give, one can easily "simulate" the classic dual classing and multiclassing rules.

Moriarty, I understand what you mean about "XP bumps", but this is not really an issue, because I look at the "full" XP table. My reasoning is of the "minimax" kind, which in a less formal way, means that I deal with it in a "worst case" way, which is how the method works by switching to the class with the worst progression. And you still have the option to apply XP penalties if you feel so inclined.

Cheers,

Antonio

Actually the only problems Gestalt created was people instituting it without the XP hit. Some try to integrate it with basic core classes with only a 1.5 XP hit, which frankly doesn't work to well because the Gestalt ends up STILL being too powerful. When you double the XP cost, it actually keeps them more balanced, and some would even say a little (but only a little) underpowered in relation to the others. Some of the new classes from wotc actually follow the powerscale/level scale in relation to abilities with some of the classes that they created (which basically combine abilities of two different classes similar to Gestalt, but making them core classes...Duskblade actually comes to mind as a nice example of that in some ways).

It is an official and sanctioned method for 3.5 by WotC for a multiclass character, and actually comes closer to multi class in the classic way than the current method which they drew from the dual class idea.

However I understand how the original Poster might not want to use that option or see that usage of MC characters, preferring the more dual classed type methodology used in the core rules instead of the Gestalt houserules from UA.

Gestalt also typically stops rabid MC from the way we've played it, as you can take on a prestige class (but that stops progression from your Gestalt class...and most times will lose you power if you continue to advance in the Gestalt manner...which no one wants to do...but is necessary for the balance...so it remains double the XP to advance to the next level still), and you can't take on another Gestalt class...

It was fashioned after the old MC type rules...but is different than the other multiclassing from the core rules of d20.

I can see how it would not mix well with the Original Posters intents however. Just had to toss it in for chicks and giggles.