Cloak of Elvenkind

nwelte1 · Post by **nwelte1** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:28 pm

By chance is the +10 in the M&T an error? Was it suppose to mirror the 3.5 version and only grant +5?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:09 pm

nwelte1 wrote:
By chance is the +10 in the M&T an error? Was it suppose to mirror the 3.5 version and only grant +5?

I hope so. Actually to make it "C&C official" I would write it up similar to as follows:

This cloak makes the wearer skilled at hiding, so all checks will be made at a base TN of 12 and their level is added to such checks. If the wearer is of a class that already is trained in hiding (Ranger, Thief, etc...) then they are able to hide as if they are 5 levels higher than their current level, so add an additional +5 to all Hide Checks, and suffer no move penalties when moving up to their normal movement rate (No -5). Going faster than their normal move rate incurs half the normal penalties (So -10 instead of -20).

To hide while being observed they get a +3 to the needed check to distract observers, and then only have a -5, instead of -10, when they make their hide check.

For those who can move silently and hide they are only at a -2 penalty, instead of -5, when trying to do both.

In the rare event that a character below 3rd level gets possession of this cloak, they can hide and move silently at the same time, instead of being unable to do so until level 3, but they do incur the full -5 penalty, essentially negating the bonus given by this cloak.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:30 pm

nwelte1 wrote:
By chance is the +10 in the M&T an error? Was it suppose to mirror the 3.5 version and only grant +5?

No. The wearer of an elven cloak is supposed to be invisible in the wilderness. +5 wont cut it, +10 does.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:50 pm

Also, it would not give hide, Treebore -- it functions in woodlands only (or should, and will in my games) so, it would be better as the ranger ability conceal. But, otherwise, I'm pretty sure Peter is right -- a +5 is a good bonus, sure, but a +10 makes one effectively damn-near impossible to detect, and is also beneficial for movement, seeing as it nullifies the penalty -- better get some hawt elf booties too.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:06 pm

serleran wrote:
Also, it would not give hide, Treebore -- it functions in woodlands only (or should, and will in my games) so, it would be better as the ranger ability conceal. But, otherwise, I'm pretty sure Peter is right -- a +5 is a good bonus, sure, but a +10 makes one effectively damn-near impossible to detect, and is also beneficial for movement, seeing as it nullifies the penalty -- better get some hawt elf booties too.

Yeah, that is why I said it was how I would write it up, mine is useful to both thieves and Rangers, in any environment.

BtB it says "hide", plus gives the elven racial abilities to move silently too. Plus it doesn't mention anything about being "woodlands only".
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:13 pm

When did I care about RaW?
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:28 pm

serleran wrote:
When did I care about RaW?

Probably the same times I do, when you like how its written and how it works.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:50 am

I like it as is. More reflective of AD&D versions.

Hrolfgar · Post by **Hrolfgar** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:50 am

I like it as is as well, in fact to be more like the AD&D version maybe it should be +15.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:13 am

I always thought elven cloaks were like the ones in Lord of the Rings. Like, where the hobbits appeared to be naught more than a pair of rocks when hiding in plain sight of the gates of Mordor.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:15 am

Well, that is a way to interpret it, but they basically make you invisible, or perhaps indistinguishable -- both have the same practical effect.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:59 pm

Hell and the boots make you silent! Damned eerie to have a dwarf wear these books!

M
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:09 pm

Yup. We sneaks in and steal ALLL YER BEEEEER!

An' gone without a sound. Well, maybe a slight chuckle of glee.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:22 pm

I'm actually leaning against duplicating AD&D -- if I wanted it to be AD&D, I'd play that game.
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:23 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
I like it as is. More reflective of AD&D versions.

I like mine because it reflects C&C.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:43 pm

Isn't 3.5's +5 a nerf because in 3.0 it was too easy to make items which gave over-powered skill bonuses?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:01 pm

Tenser's Floating Disk wrote:
Isn't 3.5's +5 a nerf because in 3.0 it was too easy to make items which gave over-powered skill bonuses?

Most like. Wasn't the AD&D version some 95-100% effective at concealment in the wilderness? Its been a while since I looked at the numbers. +10 seems to reflect that well enough.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:24 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
Most like. Wasn't the AD&D version some 95-100% effective at concealment in the wilderness? Its been a while since I looked at the numbers. +10 seems to reflect that well enough.

Yeah, it ranged from 90 up to 99%.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:41 am

You've got your chocolate on my peanut butter!
You've got your peanut butter on my chocolate!

I like the C&C version. Makes it impossble to detect, or darn near. And I kind of like picturing like the rock comparison from LotR, too (as Peter mentioned).
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:26 pm

Here's how I'm writing up the boots & cloak for my game...
Boots of Elvenkind: These soft boots enable their wearer to move silently, without a penalty to their dexterity check, even when moving at their normal movement rate. If running, the wearer of these boots only suffers a -10 penalty to their dexterity check. In addition, the boots grant their wearer a +5 bonus to all dexterity checks made to move silently.
Cloak of Elvenkind: This cloak of neutral gray cloth is indistinguishable from an ordinary cloak of the same color. However, when worn with the hood drawn up around the head, it grants the wearer a +5 bonus to all dexterity checks made to hide. In addition the cloak allows the wearer to hide while moving at up to of his normal movement rate with no penalty, so long as the character has cover or concealment from viewers. Finally the wearer of the cloak may attempt to hide in plain sight, with a -10 penalty, so long as he is perfectly still and has not been observed by his opponents before attempting his dexterity check to hide.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:39 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
Here's how I'm writing up the boots & cloak for my game...
Boots of Elvenkind: These soft boots enable their wearer to move silently, without a penalty to their dexterity check, even when moving at their normal movement rate. If running, the wearer of these boots only suffers a -10 penalty to their dexterity check. In addition, the boots grant their wearer a +5 bonus to all dexterity checks made to move silently.
Cloak of Elvenkind: This cloak of neutral gray cloth is indistinguishable from an ordinary cloak of the same color. However, when worn with the hood drawn up around the head, it grants the wearer a +5 bonus to all dexterity checks made to hide. In addition the cloak allows the wearer to hide while moving at up to of his normal movement rate with no penalty, so long as the character has cover or concealment from viewers. Finally the wearer of the cloak may attempt to hide in plain sight, with a -10 penalty, so long as he is perfectly still and has not been observed by his opponents before attempting his dexterity check to hide.

I like it, but since the book says they can make a "distraction" check in order to hide in plain sight, I would add that into the write up, and is why I did.

Now if your doing this for your AD&D3, well, you know those rules far better than I do.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:57 pm

Treebore wrote:
I like it, but since the book says they can make a "distraction" check in order to hide in plain sight, I would add that into the write up, and is why I did.

Now if your doing this for your AD&D3, well, you know those rules far better than I do.

Actually, they can make a "distraction" check to hide in nearby cover or deep shadows.

The cloak would allow you to effectively hide in the wide open (think of Frodo and Sam in The Return of the King, using the cloak to hide outside of the Gates of Mordor), with a -10 penalty, so long as you weren't spotted before you made your hide attempt.

I'd probably halve the -10 "distraction" check penalty due to moving and hiding if you did so while wearing the cloak.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:42 pm

csperkins1970 wrote:
Actually, they can make a "distraction" check to hide in nearby cover or deep shadows.

The cloak would allow you to effectively hide in the wide open (think of Frodo and Sam in The Return of the King, using the cloak to hide outside of the Gates of Mordor), with a -10 penalty, so long as you weren't spotted before you made your hide attempt.

I'd probably halve the -10 "distraction" check penalty due to moving and hiding if your did so while wearing the cloak.

Ah! I see it now. Which I think just goes to show you should add it to the write in for clarity sake.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

paladin2019 · Post by **paladin2019** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:07 am

Tenser's Floating Disk wrote:
Isn't 3.5's +5 a nerf because in 3.0 it was too easy to make items which gave over-powered skill bonuses?

Not really. D&D3.5 quintupled the cost of skill bonus items from bonus squared x20 to x100gp (I guess 'cause they were too good for the cost or something ) and so the bonus was halved to keep them near their D&D3 price. You could still have a +10 skill item in D&D3.5, it'd just cost 10k instead of the previous 2k.

FWIW, robes of blending dropped from +15 to +10, too, and they still doubled in price. Oh yeah, and you lost the ability to wear them as a surcoat.

Troll Lord Games

Cloak of Elvenkind

Cloak of Elvenkind

Re: Cloak of Elvenkind

Re: Cloak of Elvenkind