Rogues/Bards and scrolls

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:25 am

Does a rogues decipher script ability, grant him the ability to cast arcane spells from a scroll? His ability states that he may decipher the arcane script (at a -10 penalty), but says nothing of actually casting the spell.

The Bards decipher script states that he may decipher the arcane script on a scroll and then cast the spell.

Are the two abilities different or do they both allow for the casting of spells from an arcane scroll?
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:56 am

Maliki wrote:
Does a rogues decipher script ability, grant him the ability to cast arcane spells from a scroll?

As far as I understand it, the abilities are supposed to be the same, so yes.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:14 am

Good question. I've never run into this debate yet, but I know we're going to in the current campaign. A tough call, but I'd have to say that the Rogue could only decipher the arcane writing, not having the ability to cast any spell associated the with the writing.

-O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:29 am

Yes.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:29 am

Yes.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:09 pm

On one hand, I don't think this was an oversight - I feel there is a reason that the rogue's ability states that they cannot cast the spell...because they can't. On the other hand, though, I don't feel the rogue has the ability to just decipher the scroll and that's it. In the description of scrolls, it says that once a scroll is deciphered it can be cast. The bard ability description echoes this. I feel it was an oversight and that rogues can cast spells from arcane scrolls. At least that's how I'd play it.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue May 12, 2009 12:41 pm

This came up in play last night, and I ruled that he was able to cast the spell (knock) from the scroll. Partly because thieves could do this in various editions of D&D, plus it really helped keep the adventure moving along.

I set the CR at 23 (Intelligence prime, so 12 +10(-10 penalty for the arcane scroll) +1 for the spell level) Does that sound right?

He made the roll with a natural 20, +3 for level and +1 for Intelligence bonus.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:21 pm

Maliki wrote:
This came up in play last night, and I ruled that he was able to cast the spell (knock) from the scroll. Partly because thieves could do this in various editions of D&D, plus it really helped keep the adventure moving along.

I set the CR at 23 (Intelligence prime, so 12 +10(-10 penalty for the arcane scroll) +1 for the spell level) Does that sound right?

He made the roll with a natural 20, +3 for level and +1 for Intelligence bonus.

Sounds like you got it right to me...and sounds like he got it, bossman.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:32 pm

Quote:
In the description of scrolls, it says that once a scroll is deciphered it can be cast.

That is precisely why a rogue can do it. Also, and strictly speaking, if someone told you what to read off while holding the scroll (say, you're blind or can't read the language), it could still work... assuming the "translator" told you precisely. This has come up before in a game of mine, and I allowed it... the "translator" was smart and used a "thinking bottle" to do it, though.

It also means you have to keep track of which spells on what scrolls have been deciphered, and is one reason read magic is actually a useful spell.
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anonymous · Post by **anonymous** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:59 pm

If the rogue can't cast the spell, the ability is a bit useless...

"What's this?"

"Let me see... it seems to be a scroll which, when read out, will cast a Cone of Cold spell."

"Excellent - so now we can cast a Cone of Cold!"

"No. I can only tell you that's what it is. You'd need a wizard to cast the spell."

"You're not much good, are you?"

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:54 pm

Tenser's Floating Disk wrote:
If the rogue can't cast the spell, the ability is a bit useless...

"What's this?"

"Let me see... it seems to be a scroll which, when read out, will cast a Cone of Cold spell."

"Excellent - so now we can cast a Cone of Cold!"

"No. I can only tell you that's what it is. You'd need a wizard to cast the spell."

"You're not much good, are you?"

That's pretty much it, in my opinion, Tenser. Without the ability to actually do something with the scroll once the rogue figures out what it is, what good is the power?
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Wed May 13, 2009 12:03 am

Errata, or more accurately, a clarification?

Methinks the answer is "yes".
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Wulfgarn · Post by **Wulfgarn** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:35 am

Because the magic is already cast into the scroll- Components and all--- you are just releasing the stored spell energy from the scroll

This last bit is from 1e - were it says that a scroll is an almost cast spell needing the last phrase to release its energy.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:52 pm

Maliki wrote:
This came up in play last night, and I ruled that he was able to cast the spell (knock) from the scroll. Partly because thieves could do this in various editions of D&D, plus it really helped keep the adventure moving along.

I set the CR at 23 (Intelligence prime, so 12 +10(-10 penalty for the arcane scroll) +1 for the spell level) Does that sound right?

He made the roll with a natural 20, +3 for level and +1 for Intelligence bonus.

My bad, the CR should have been 24 since knock is a 2nd level spell, but no matter he still would have made the roll.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:54 pm

Traveller wrote:
Errata, or more accurately, a clarification?

Methinks the answer is "yes".

I posted this in the Keeper Advice section as well, and both answers there were "yes" he can cast spells from scrolls using dicipher script.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:56 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
That's pretty much it, in my opinion, Tenser. Without the ability to actually do something with the scroll once the rogue figures out what it is, what good is the power?

My thoughts as well, plus the bard could do it, and I don't see him as any more magical than the rogue, in C&C.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:00 pm

Maliki wrote:
My thoughts as well, plus the bard could do it, and I don't see him as any more magical than the rogue, in C&C.

Agreed. And I also agree that this should be a "clarification" instead of "errata."
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CKDad · Post by **CKDad** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:19 pm

This is something that dates back to the earliest days of D&D. Why? Two words: Grey Mouser.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:55 pm

D&D had some great influences, for certain.
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Mac Golden · Post by **Mac Golden** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:43 pm

Both can cast if deciphered. It should be the same.

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Rogues/Bards and scrolls

Rogues/Bards and scrolls

Re: Rogues/Bards and scrolls

ugh