Stat Blocks in Modules

Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:55 pm

Not for the new ones, LD.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:07 pm

Not for the new what? New modules? New M&T? Now you're worrying me...did they move something around in the new M&T?

I hope this isn't something they decide to do, waste space with XP in the modules. It's just not necessary, IMHO. The newest module I own, A5, has some nice stat blocks. A little to verbose, IMHO, but okay. If I want XP, I can open my M&T - it's not too difficult. All the critters are in nice, alphabetical, order for me to find. If you're going to add something to the stat blocks, add something that I can use during the encounter, not something that I don't need immediate access to.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri May 22, 2009 7:27 pm

There are no monsters in M&T II. Only cute, friendly, encounters... of the killing and maiming variety.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:36 pm

I can understand the convenience of including calculated XP values but I can flatly state that there won't be giving giving any of those amounts for the encounters appearing in the module.

There's a couple of reasons for this:

- A fair share of CKs just wouldn't use it and prefer to deal with experience points in a different manner or for different things.

- To give a precise amount of XP would mean the CK would have to use the creatures as is and not modify something as simple as hitpoints.

Besides, the point of the adventure is to have a good and enjoyable story for the players to take part in. It is not meant to render the M&T obsolete when using the module.

At most, I may consider it for the reference sheet if it ends up getting done but I'm not sold on the pre-calculated xp idea.

M
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 22, 2009 11:09 pm

Modules are about utility, ure and simple.

They exist to make the CK's life easier. a kick ass module with added ease and utility? It's gravy. it's not adding mechanics, its not changing the game system, it is simply making the existing mechanics as easily usable as possible.

I'm a firm believer that after "risking" their neck in a tough module, the players deserve the instant gratification of what they earned Xp-wise right then. Give's them that "Hell yeah!" feeling of accomplishment. Not, 20 minutes later, not an hour later, not next session. Once the session is complete, BAM! Here ya go guys, good game.

My players love it and are accustomed to it with me as CK. They'd balk if I did it any other way.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Fri May 22, 2009 11:52 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Modules are about utility, ure and simple.

They exist to make the CK's life easier. a kick ass module with added ease and utility? It's gravy. it's not adding mechanics, its not changing the game system, it is simply making the existing mechanics as easily usable as possible.

I'm a firm believer that after "risking" their neck in a tough module, the players deserve the instant gratification of what they earned Xp-wise right then. Give's them that "Hell yeah!" feeling of accomplishment. Not, 20 minutes later, not an hour later, not next session. Once the session is complete, BAM! Here ya go guys, good game.

My players love it and are accustomed to it with me as CK. They'd balk if I did it any other way.

That's your preference as CK. No offense, DD, but that doesn't mean it's what should be, only what you think it should be.
If you want to give XP right then and there, then just go through the adventure and jot down the XP values of the creatures in the stat blocks. I think I recall you saying you sit down and read it, highlighting stuff beforehand anyway...would it be so hard to jot down XP, too? And I think you're the first person I've ever heard of in all my years gaming that gives XP immediately after PCs earn it...not a knock, just an observation, good sir!
I think Mort said it well - I know I don't run the creatures straight out of the stat blocks, as-is. So for many of us, the XP values are a waste...just like attribute scores would be if they were included for teh monsters.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 22, 2009 11:55 pm

Lord Dynel wrote:
If you want to give XP right then and there, then just go through the adventure and jot down the XP values of the creatures in the stat blocks. I think I recall you saying you sit down and read it, highlighting stuff beforehand anyway...would it be so hard to jot down XP, too? And I think you're the first person I've ever heard of in all my years gaming that gives XP immediately after PCs earn it...not a knock, just an observation, good sir!

That is how I do it. My modules are all scarred up with Xp notes throughout.

I don't think it's a requirement for a good module, I do think its gravy and it will make me even more prone to pick it up.

And how long do you guys wait before giving XP? I've always done it when the session ends. I'm actually surprised if folks do do it another way.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:19 am

No, I misread, DD. I thought you gave it to them immediately after the encounter!
No, I give it at the end of the session. It takes me all of 5 minutes. During that time, players talk amongst themsleves, or level up their characters if need be, divvy out treasure usually, or go over the session in detail and discuss it. By the time they look at me, I have the XP ready to go.

I don't know, DD. I'm not intentionally trying to be an ass, but to me inclusion of the XP in the stat block wouldn't make a bit of difference whether or not I picked up a module....but again, that's just me.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:33 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
I don't know, DD. I'm not intentionally trying to be an ass, but to me inclusion of the XP in the stat block wouldn't make a bit of difference whether or not I picked up a module....but again, that's just me.

Not having it definitely wouldn't stop me from buying one. But the added utility could make me pick some up that I was borderline on.

Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat May 23, 2009 12:40 am

Gotcha! I can see that.
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Grey · Post by **Grey** » Sat May 23, 2009 9:46 am

From LD:

Quote:
I'm going to be snarky a bit, Grey.

Isn't that what Monsters & Treasure is for? Monster stats with XP in one spot?

Damn, you got me there! I must admit I tend to be a bit 'fast and loose' with XP, and reading this thread makes me realise that I am probably ambivalent to them being in modules - if they were there I would probably use them (simpler on my aged brain), if not I wouldn't miss them.

Also, Moriarty777 made some excellent points about different CK's using different methods for XP's etc. Keep it flexible!

D.

jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:12 am

Here's a stat block from the Doorstep of Doom, the first level of the Dungeon of Dreadful Doom (working titles).
Six Goblin Warriors LE Small Humanoids; 1d6 HD; HP: 2x6, 3x5, 4; AC: 15 (Hide + Dexterity + Size); Move: 20 ft.; BtH: +1, +2 with short bow; Attacks: Scimitar (1d6) or Short Bow (1d6, Range 60 ft.); Special: DV 60 ft.; SV: P; Int: Average; XPV: 2x11, 3x10, 9. These goblins wear hide armor and wield scimitars and short bows. Each has a quiver with 20 black-fletched arrows.

How does that work? Note that if the goblins had carried treasure, it would be listed...
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Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:20 am

jamesmishler wrote:
Here's a stat block from the Doorstep of Doom, the first level of the Dungeon of Dreadful Doom (working titles).
Six Goblin Warriors LE Small Humanoids; 1d6 HD; HP: 2x6, 3x5, 4; AC: 15 (Hide + Dexterity + Size); Move: 20 ft.; BtH: +1, +2 with short bow; Attacks: Scimitar (1d6) or Short Bow (1d6, Range 60 ft.); Special: DV 60 ft.; SV: P; Int: Average; XPV: 2x11, 3x10, 9. These goblins wear hide armor and wield scimitars and short bows. Each has a quiver with 20 black-fletched arrows.

How does that work? Note that if the goblins had carried treasure, it would be listed...

Perfect IMO. I still favor adding the XP b/c if you do run it as is, poof! done. Adding the XP can be as short as 2 characters, and if the Ck does change the HP, they can just ignore it and calculate like they normally would anyway.

Relaxo · Post by **Relaxo** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:21 am

Lord Dynel wrote:
Not for the new what?

Monsters, I meant. Sorry, didn't proofread.

dachda · Post by **dachda** » Sat May 23, 2009 2:24 pm

jamesmishler wrote:
Here's a stat block from the Doorstep of Doom, the first level of the Dungeon of Dreadful Doom (working titles).
Six Goblin Warriors LE Small Humanoids; 1d6 HD; HP: 2x6, 3x5, 4; AC: 15 (Hide + Dexterity + Size); Move: 20 ft.; BtH: +1, +2 with short bow; Attacks: Scimitar (1d6) or Short Bow (1d6, Range 60 ft.); Special: DV 60 ft.; SV: P; Int: Average; XPV: 2x11, 3x10, 9. These goblins wear hide armor and wield scimitars and short bows. Each has a quiver with 20 black-fletched arrows.

How does that work? Note that if the goblins had carried treasure, it would be listed...

Like this, but may I suggest using @ instead of x? so it is "HP: 2@6, 3@5, 4 . . . " For me at least, I read this as 2 at 6 hp, rather than 2 times 6 hp. Maybe a quirk of my brain and no one else's but I think it is clearer and easier to read quickly.
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Lord Dynel · Post by **Lord Dynel** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:17 pm

It's good, James. Still think XP values are unnecessary, for reasons already mentioned, but that's me. Your blocks are good, sir!
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:42 pm

dachda wrote:
Like this, but may I suggest using @ instead of x? so it is "HP: 2@6, 3@5, 4 . . . " For me at least, I read this as 2 at 6 hp, rather than 2 times 6 hp. Maybe a quirk of my brain and no one else's but I think it is clearer and easier to read quickly.

I'm the reverse... if I were to quickly scan down the page, the '@' sign wouldn't register for me as well as the 'x' would. Part of it I'm sure is because I'm so used to seeing 'x' as a multiplier in various stat blocks.

I'm a bit less fussy about this stat block model to be honest. I had everything that one would need and there are a couple things in it I wouldn't be likely to include.

Unfortunately, what this thread demonstrates to me is that there really is no pleasing everyone and each and everyone of us would like to see something specific.

M
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Sat May 23, 2009 11:46 pm

Heh, yeah. Definitely no way to please everyone.