Troll Lord Games

In C&CS chat last night Moriarty brought up an interesting question regarding critter stat blocks in modules and our preferences.

TLG uses a more literary method for stat blocks in their modules, with critter writeups utilizing language like "The Boogie Man's exceptional attributes are..."

So, do you prefer that method or do you like a more neatly formatted, crunch block?

For me, while the more statistically oriented stat block is generally more pleasing to the eye, I prefer the literary method. Why?

For one, it makes me nostalgic and reminds me of older modules. But, most importantly for me, critter stats written using the literary style are easier for my grouchy brain to remember and retain. My brain skips over blocks of pure crunch a bit too easily.

I don't think there is a "right" way to do the stat blocks since different folks process information differently. I do appreciate the method the trolls are largely using in their works right now though. Even with modules I haven't read in awhile, I can still tell you a bit about the stats of various entries because of how they were written as opposed to how they were formatted by crunch.

Just some food for thought.

I have only read one module (A1) so far. The stat blocks are minimal, but usable.

While I like a narritive approach (it is great when it states the monster's tactics), some "at your finger-tip" stats really save a CK time:

HD, HP, AC, Saves, Attacks, Damage, Movement, Brief summary of Special abilities, Equipment, and XP rewards.

Generally, each one of those stats is used in every combat and very useful.

Things like size, intelligence, type, alignment, etc can be helpful in certain circumstances (e.g. spells that affect certain alignments, types) but perhaps not often enough for a listing.

While I can appreciate the wordy statblocks TLG tends to use, I'm more of a fan of the crunchy statistics driven statblock. When running a game on the fly (or writing your own modules), it's just so much easier to take a second or two to glance at a stat-block. To have to read a description of the creature can slow the pace, even if only for a couple of more seconds.

-O
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

By the way, Moriarty777 is BHP's C&C mechanics editor.

And he is doing a bang-up job!

*So Like DD said, post in this thread your thoughts on C&C stat blocks.
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John Adams

Personally, I perfer the crunchy version, and LIke DD brought up in another thread, adding the XP value to the block also.

For example:

Orc Elite, each: HD 2d8 (8 hp), MV 30, AC 15 (breastplates and shields), Attack Spear 1d8, Saves P, XP 10+2 (26)

I also like notes on tactics so as a Ck, I know how the author wants me to slaughter the PCs.

I prefer the crunchy stat block for the same reasons already mentioned.

Good luck in getting Steve to change his mind on this one, we've been trying for 5 years. Can't out stubborn a Troll Lord.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

I'm also a crunch lover. give me the numbers I need so I don't have to ferret them out of a bunch of other text, then follow them with a brief couple tactics/description sentences...or a page reference number to a monster appendix at the back with a more complete description.

Don't expect Steve to change his mind on it. Just noting a preference. hell, my family is so stubborn we had a old north pennsylvania dutch farmer name his mules after my folks...
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

I prefer the crunchy kind with the XP included. I don't really mind the narrative style, but (maybe I'm high or something), but I don't remember narrative stat blocks in 1e stuff. Anyhow, I really don't mind the narrative style. My only issue (and it's a nitpick) is that there isn't a set stat block. Stat blocks tend to vary not only from product to product, but from page to page. For example, some stats in Yggsburgh abbreviate "primary attributes" as "PA" and other blocks do not. Obviously, the reader gets the info regardless, but it does sort break up the unity of the product and the product line.

I'd like to see someone on high create a template and see it used throughout.
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Lord Frost

Baron of the Pitt
Castles & Crusades Society
The Dungeoneering Dad

Well in this case, your thoughts can have an impact -- at least with the C&C products released through Brave Halfling Publishing.

Thus far, I was leaning with keeping the 'literary' stat block but also having a reference sheet / page which contains a list of all the critters in the mod in with just the basic and shortened stats. However, I'm beginning to get the impression that a lot of people seem to like the crunch.

Keep the comments coming folks!

As an aside, I agree with Frost's comments about the importance with consistency. If you set aside the Yggsburgh/Zagyg material, I've noticed that the stat blocks tend to stick to the same format when I did my 'random survey' of official C&C modules.

Even the ones put out by Goodman Games were mostly of the same still with the exception of the fourth module (I believe). The module that followed resumed the literary stat block format.

The main reason why I'm leaning towards the literary style is also because this seems to be the precedence set when you look at the TLG product line.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Oh sure, toss out serleran's idea. I see how it is.

Truth is, for me anyway, I am not a particular fan of the literary block -- I want something that will let me just flip and use, not have to read and re-read, though that does have its merits.
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Serl's Corner

I'll throw this out there as it's part of what I do for a living...

The stat block is good UX (User Experience) design because I don't want to think (more than I have to) when flipping the pages looking for a stat.

I guess both would eat too much space.

serleran wrote:
Oh sure, toss out serleran's idea. I see how it is.

Truth is, for me anyway, I am not a particular fan of the literary block -- I want something that will let me just flip and use, not have to read and re-read, though that does have its merits.

Hehehe... I like your idea! No one has tossed it out!
M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Relaxo wrote:
I guess both would eat too much space.

Well, it might be possible to arrange a hybrid of the two styles. Example:

The vital stats for this chaotic neutral critter are: INSERT-SHORTENED-STAT-CRUNCH-HERE. They prefer fighting with X, happens to have Y abilities which affect characters in a Z way.

Hmm... it might work and it will provide the experienced CKs with the info that need in a condensed form but with a literary intro and additional but relevant special notes immediately following the block.

I'll play around with a couple of critters to see how well it reads and looks.

It won't be longer than the literary stat-block and it might even be marginally shorter.

M
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"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

I prefer consistancy. If they're all teh same, that's what matters most to me, personally.

Having said that, I would prefer the crunchy method blocks. Saves space in a module, and the one looking at the information (the CK) should know what all the letters and numbers mean.

And no XP in the stat block, IMHO. I don't need it, personally. Takes up space and I'm not going to need the XP when I need everything else in the stat block. Not everything has to be like the old days.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Actually, I would prefer it to be something like:

Number: X; HD (HP) [1, 2, 3, ...]; AC; Saves; Attacks (DMG); XP [1, 2, 3, ...]

Specials:

Treasure:
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If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

I've never actually used a module before, all original here... but if I did, I would prefer a clean and clear presentation of stat info.
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In this world of LIES... the TRUTH, it means RESISTANCE!

Name (x#) Size

HD (hp); Mv; AC; Attack; Special; Sv; Int; Align; Type; XP; Treasure

Notes:

Pretty much how I annotate my stat blocks.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Lord Dynel wrote:
And no XP in the stat block, IMHO. I don't need it, personally. Takes up space and I'm not going to need the XP when I need everything else in the stat block. Not everything has to be like the old days.

The way I run my games the XP in the stat block would be a huge boon to me prep-wise. I keep a running total throughout the session of XP earned and as soon as the session ends my players have their XP within a minute. I like to give them that instant, "This is what you get".

I can understand the want for a tight, more crunch oriented stat block, I do plan on enjoying the more literary block while it lasts though.

When readying a module for my group I sit down and read through it, hi-liting numbers for a little more ease of use.

Number blocks make my brain go numb and I find it harder for me to absorb what I'm reading.

I can understand the need for XP in stat blocks. I personally don't think the Trolls should go to the trouble, but that's me.

It's not a big deal to me, personally, because I like to tally XP at the end of the session. But that's personal preference. I think a tighter, leaner stat block would make for more module goodness, but that's me - I've dealt the "number blocks" as DD put it since the olden days of 1st Edition, so I'm well used to them.
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

Ooooooo....

You brought up D&D in the same post as C&C....

Ooooooo....

But yeah, number blocks have been around forever. Most of my gaming has been with 2nd Edition and those modules made use of some seriously tight number blocks.

If Steve is to blame for the more literary approach of C&C, my goofy brain will have to send him a thank you note.

As I think about it more, I'm actually firmly in the crunchy camp, with XP listed. I mean, it's at most, 4 more characters, not too much space.
unless it's a real doozy monster.
I think the best example so far was posted with the Elete Orc example.

(I want to be clear this is meant as a tonge-in-cheek joke, I'm not like, the biggest ego head around, like this sounds)((that's the joke))

(((i'm sure you understand)))

((((I love parentheses))))

(((((Word))))))

Relaxo wrote:
As I think about it more, I'm actually firmly in the crunchy camp, with XP listed. I mean, it's at most, 4 more characters, not too much space.

Really diggin' the Xp values for critters for BHP stuff you do.

Just to go back up the thread a bit, I quite like the idea Moriarty777 put forward:

Quote:
Thus far, I was leaning with keeping the 'literary' stat block but also having a reference sheet / page which contains a list of all the critters in the mod in with just the basic and shortened stats.

I like the idea of a page of 'crunch' stats (preferably with XP as well) in one place, so I can readily reference creatures.
D.

Grey wrote:
I like the idea of a page of 'crunch' stats (preferably with XP as well) in one place, so I can readily reference creatures.
D.

I'm going to be snarky a bit, Grey.
Isn't that what Monsters & Treasure is for? Monster stats with XP in one spot?

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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.