Page 1 of 1
Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:23 pm
by vivsavage
I'm a veteran RPGer (25+ years) but am new to C&C. I have a few questions if you don't mind...
1) Just curious... why doesn't the barbarian have any outdoor/survival abilities? They're supposed to grow up in tribes outside of civilization, yet all they have are combat abilities.
2) Is it assumed that bards can play any instrument they come across?
3) Is it assumed that every character knows how to ride, swim, read & write?
4) How many spells do wizards and illusionists start with in their spell books?
5) If using GGs skill system, do PCs start with any background skills, or do these all need to be learned as they advance?
6) Nautical abilities & knowledge.... um, does anyone have any? Seems like a mariner class would be welcome here.
Thanks!
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:39 pm
by Omote
Serleran summed it up well; and welcome to the Crusade!
..........................................Omote
FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:03 pm
by vivsavage
serleran wrote:
1) They live in tribes, and are not loners, hence some of them (the tribe) know how to hunt and grow crops, but that doesn't mean the PC does.
So it's really another "it's up to the CK" thing?
serleran wrote:
4) Equal to the number they can cast, plus bonus spells.
But at subsequent levels, they automatically gain only one new spell, correct?
serleran wrote:
6) I don't use a mariner class, but I do have nautical rules.
I'd like to see them. How do you deal with nautical knowledge & ability?
serleran wrote:
(As you'll see, most of the questions are more of "how do you want to play it?")
That's fine with me!
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:11 pm
by Treebore
Welcome to the crusade!
Also, the more you think like you used to in 1E the better C&C will fit.
I like to think of C&C as how 1E/2E should have been improved upon. So C&C plays very much like D&D used to in the 1E days (IMO) with the SIEGE engine making the game as simple and flexible as it should have been.
also, your post reads like you haven't discovered
www.cncplayer.net
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:18 pm
by gideon_thorne
vivsavage wrote:
5) If using GGs skill system, do PCs start with any background skills, or do these all need to be learned as they advance?
I asked Gary this very question a few days ago.
His answer was that these are skills that characters develop as they go.
There are various methods to handle it.
1) Say your character does, indeed, have a background which has taught him a capacity to live off the land. Ie, the aformentioned 'survival' skill for barbarians. As part of the characters back story, the player can say that his character is likely to attempt to use survival frequently. So. This, at its base, is a 'seige engine' check. For each attempt successful or not, I would note a small bit of xp. This way the character has a slowly growing pool of 'xp' for that one skill, to develop it.
2) Method two. Save 5-10% of the characters adventuring xp aside. By the time a character hits 4-5th level on average they will have enough to purchase one level (+2) of a given skill.
3) My favorite, start the character off as a 0 level NPC (pick the appropriate race out of the M&T and roll the indicated hit dice) and make the character an apprentice/ journeman/ etc. Part of the 'story' of the character can be that his particular growing up 'craft' master, or location, suffered some sort of tragedy, and he can have a base 'skill' to start while he is learning from other PC's in the party about a given class proffession whilst seeking revenge or other prosaic plot hook device.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:29 pm
by vivsavage
gideon_thorne wrote:
vivsavage wrote:
As part of the characters back story, the player can say that his character is likely to attempt to use survival frequently. So. This, at its base, is a 'seige engine' check
Perhaps with "basic" survival skills considered to be Prime for all 6 attributes or something? Or would it be the mere allowance of a seige engine check, with non-wilderness characters not allowed to make the check at all?
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:33 pm
by Ghul
vivsavage wrote:
I'm a veteran RPGer (25+ years) but am new to C&C. I have a few questions if you don't mind...
1) Just curious... why doesn't the barbarian have any outdoor/survival abilities? They're supposed to grow up in tribes outside of civilization, yet all they have are combat abilities.
I give barbarians the ranger's ability of survival, but I limit it to a chosen environment, such as plains, desert, mountains, forest, etc.
Quote:
2) Is it assumed that bards can play any instrument they come across?
I want to know what kind of bard is being played. It could be a storyteller (orator), musician (strings, wind, percussion), or singer. I believe it should be assumed that the bard has gone through an apprenticeship of at least 6 or 7 years in one of these forms to be where he or she is.
Quote:
3) Is it assumed that every character knows how to ride, swim, read & write?
Ride: most will know the basics in my campaign, but as Serl notes, only the knoight will be a master of the mounted combat. Swim: depends on character background. Read & Write: I have specific rules concerning fluency and literacy based on race, class, and intelligence.
Quote:
4) How many spells do wizards and illusionists start with in their spell books?
I use first edition rules in this instance instead of the C&C rules.
Quote:
5) If using GGs skill system, do PCs start with any background skills, or do these all need to be learned as they advance?
In my game, I do allow for a small amount of secondary skills. These are not, however, the skill bundles such as presnted in Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh. For example, a character may have some experience as a mason, and this may even come into game play (if an important check was required in judging some piece of masonry, I'd likely give a +2 bonus to the check). However, if one purchases the Construction Ability, this will ensure skills in carpentry, masonry, engineering and a host of other related skills.
Quote:
6) Nautical abilities & knowledge.... um, does anyone have any? Seems like a mariner class would be welcome here.
I would use the Nautical Ability in CZ Yggsburgh.
Quote:
Thanks!
You're welcome. I have been playing the same amount of time as you, and as you can see by my answers, they are not recitations of the C&C rules; rather they are largely my adjustments and house rules in many cases. This is, IME, the beauty of C&C. It offers you a streamlined system for you to impose your own rules over. It puts the power back in the DM's hands.
--Ghul
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:41 pm
by gideon_thorne
vivsavage wrote:
Perhaps with "basic" survival skills considered to be Prime for all 6 attributes or something? Or would it be the mere allowance of a seige engine check, with non-wilderness characters not allowed to make the check at all?
I think I understand your question properly but I'll toss out a 'by the book' reply anyhow.
Towit, a character making a simple check that emulates the ability of another class, in this case survival which is more or less a ranger ability, does not add their level.
If the character has a prime ability of wisdom (i believe thats the relavent check?) they simply roll vs a prime, and add the ability modifier.
Once the xp has accumulated enough to 'purchase' the survival ability, (3000 xp or so I believe?) its then an additional +2 per level of the ability bought. Its almost like having two levels of a class in the ability more or less.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:48 pm
by vivsavage
gideon_thorne wrote:
I think I understand your question properly but I'll toss out a 'by the book' reply anyhow.
Towit, a character making a simple check that emulates the ability of another class, in this case survival which is more or less a ranger ability, does not add their level.
If the character has a prime ability of wisdom (i believe thats the relavent check?) they simply roll vs a prime, and add the ability modifier.
Once the xp has accumulated enough to 'purchase' the survival ability, (3000 xp or so I believe?) its then an additional +2 per level of the ability bought. Its almost like having two levels of a class in the ability more or less.
I guess what I'm asking is: how would you differentiate the survival skills of a barbarian (basic knowledge) versus those of a ranger (an expert) and a wizard from the city (someone who would have only the most basic idea of how to build shelter)?
Re: Newbie questions
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:53 pm
by gideon_thorne
vivsavage wrote:
I guess what I'm asking is: how would you differentiate the survival skills of a barbarian (basic knowledge) versus those of a ranger (an expert) and a wizard from the city (someone who would have only the most basic idea of how to build shelter)?
Pretty much exactly the way the C&C book sets it up.
Barbarian (basic knowledge) seige engine check d20 + attribute modifier > 12/18
Ranger same as above but they add level since they have Survival as a class ability
A 'city boy' wizard', same as barbarian, since I am a nice bloke and all.
I imagine that some folks would be inclined to assign a penalty for the wizard, or even treat the roll as 'non prime'.
But I don't think its neccessary myself for 'low level' characters. Which is penalty enough in this system in my humble opinuon.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven
Peter Bradley
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:54 pm
by Ghul
Quote:
I guess what I'm asking is: how would you differentiate the survival skills of a barbarian (basic knowledge) versus those of a ranger (an expert) and a wizard from the city (someone who would have only the most basic idea of how to build shelter)?
In my game, the wizard would be useless in this capacity. The barbarian (again, this is a house rule) would be able to do all the things a ranger could do for survival, but limited to doing it in the environment in which his culture hails from. A ranger would be the ultimate boyscout, able to perform in this capacity in all environments. Again, not the official rules, but how I handle them.
--Ghul
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:21 am
by Treebore
Here is an alternative ideqa for skills, which is the way I do it.
you have the 3E books, right? Take the class skills as they are broken down in 3E and give the FULL list to the closest equivelant C&C class. That is your guideline for what each class in C&C can do and get their level added to the roll. As for knowledge/craft/profession skills, they only get what is required for the class. Beyond that I limit them to whatever their INT modifier is, if any, in each skill category. So if they ahave a +2 INT bonus they can have two craft, 2 knowledge, and 2 profession skills.
Yes, it is a bit generous, but so what? I have never had skills break or ruin any of my games.
Besides, the only skill list I have even been tempted to shorten is the thieves/assassins. They can do an awful lot. Then again they aren't meant to be the combat character or spell character, so I look at them as the skills expert.
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:14 am
by Emryys
Here's a little skill system thread I created, with a pdf of the system (HR) Skill/Attribute Checks
_________________
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:05 am
by Grom
I use Green Ronin's system for backgrounds, since I run a campaign with almost exclusively human PCs: each background gives you access to a bunch of skill-like abilities, and your level is added to the checks. So a 10th level wizard with the Nomad background would add +10 to their ride checks. Generous, but since each PC has a background, it's balanced.
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:18 pm
by Treebore
Grom,
Have you introduced yourself? If you have I'm sorry I forgot.
Which green Ronin book are you referring too? I own a lot, but far from all. Is that in their True20 books or something?
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:52 pm
by Grom
Treebore,
No, your memory is good: I haven't introduced, as I was waiting on a proper avatar...but since you ask
Been RPing for almost 30 years now, and have tried many systems, but have found that with limited time, attention and memory cells the simpler systems suit me more. C&C is a good compromise for me and my group, as it's D&D-enough for them, and simple enough for me. Grom was my last D&D 3.x character, a dwarven barbarian who eschewed armor; it also happens to be Polish for 'thunder'. The avatar is a Frazetta, of course 8)
Both The Black Company Campaign System & Thieves' World books have the background rules in them: I use both, though there's a lot of overlap.
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:55 pm
by Emryys
Grom wrote:
Both The Black Company Campaign System & Thieves' World books have the background rules in them: I use both, though there's a lot of overlap.
Thieves' World does look interesting.... with CnC rules, Perfect!
P.S. Welcome Grom!
_________________
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:08 am
by babbage
In my campaign the barbarian class is renamed 'berserker' and is strictly limited to the viking-like Orbaalese. IMO, these wouldn't know any more about survival in the wilderness any more than any other class.
No problems for me then! 8)
_________________
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:41 pm
by Omote
CZII, Castle Zagyg Upper Works box set should be released in time for GenCon 2008. THIS is the probably the biggest release event at GenCon. Get your copy early! The very dungeons of the Dungeon Master, himself. Ah, it's a good time to be a fan of TLG and Castle Zagyg!
-O
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:49 pm
by Matthew
Welcome to the crusade, Fox Abril!
As Omote says, basically. The Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh Town Expansions are rolling out one by one (I think about half a dozen are available now).
The Castle Keeper's Guide remains a subject for amusement around here. It might be out by Christmas, but don't hold your breath. In the meantime, just use your AD&D DMG.
_________________
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after ones own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350)
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:15 pm
by Breakdaddy
Upper Works will be out at Gen Con. I urge you to get to the TLG booth early so that you don't catch us after the thing is sold out. I don't yet know how many copies we are bringing so this may or may not be an issue. As an aside, I am glad that you found C&C and enjoy the game!
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:05 pm
by Jonathan of White Haven
Breakdaddy wrote:
Upper Works will be out at Gen Con. I urge you to get to the TLG booth early so that you don't catch us after the thing is sold out. I don't yet know how many copies we are bringing so this may or may not be an issue. As an aside, I am glad that you found C&C and enjoy the game!
Stupid question time, 'Daddy. Will there be copies of the Upper Works reserved for those of us who pre-ordered it but who will not be able to attend GenCon? Enquiring Minds Want To Know!(tm)
_________________
"You don't understand, Beaufingle", said Lungwort cryptically. "You ARE dinner." -- M.M. Moamrath