My heavily house-ruled version of C&C

Open Discussion on all things C&C from new product to general questions to the rules, the laws, and the chaos.
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csperkins1970
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Post by csperkins1970 »

Dristram wrote:
I'm curious though, was this something you began working on before or after you discovered C&C?

Oh yeah. We started playing it and I really enjoyed the game but felt that it was lacking something. I wanted to make a game that had the flexibility and playability of C&C while shedding the rules that moved C&C away from its D&D roots.

In particular, I had issues with class & racial abilities and how balanced they were against each other, with EV, with the lack of multiclassing/dual-classing rules, with the difficulty of succeeding at attribute checks, with weapon notes and with the poor spell selection. Weighed against what I like about C&C, I still think C&C is a GREAT game and I enjoy playing my Dwarven Cleric/Fighter in a C&C game that doesn't use my alternate ruleset.
Dristram wrote:
Personally, I've been inspired by C&C to replant a lot of rules from AD&D that I may call my house ruled version AC&C.

Go for it! I've had fun looking through my old books and trying to figure out how to convert them.
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Post by Jason Vey »

UA looks great so far; FINISH IT! .

It needs all those sections at the end done, a ToC, and an Index.

For skills, I'd expand what you already have rather than incorporating a different system; the 2E proficiency system was clunky, anyway. You'd be better off to go with the 3E "roll high" system.

For psionics, I'd definitely make them based off Wisdom checks rather than "effects per day."

Clerical Spheres...sounds cool, but eh. Dunno if you need it. Same with metamagic, though I think it's a cool concept.

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Post by phadeout »

The Grey Elf wrote:
For psionics, I'd definitely make them based off Wisdom checks rather than "effects per day."

Clerical Spheres...sounds cool, but eh. Dunno if you need it. Same with metamagic, though I think it's a cool concept.

These are the sorta things, where, they are really nice to have, but just always remember, if it's starting to make it overly complex, your most likely better off without or you will end up right back to the clunkiness of 3.x. When making my own house rules, I find it hard to "resist" the urge to add more and more and more

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Post by Jason Vey »

phadeout wrote:
These are the sorta things, where, they are really nice to have, but just always remember, if it's starting to make it overly complex, your most likely better off without or you will end up right back to the clunkiness of 3.x. When making my own house rules, I find it hard to "resist" the urge to add more and more and more

I don't know that I 100% agree. Psionics, I think, is a good optional add-on, so long as it has its own flavor and is entirely its own deal and not just "re-named magic".

However, Clerical Spheres, metamagic, and such may be extraneous in this system. Though I do like the idea of a "signature" system, wherein the wizard can customize his spells in minor ways ("That green, whistling fireball! That's the sign of Faldor the Invincible!")

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Post by Jason Vey »

NOOOOOO!

THIS CANNOT GO AWAY!

FINISH THE UNEARTHED ARCANA AND MONSTER MANUAL!

PLEASE!
8)

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Post by csperkins1970 »

The Grey Elf wrote:
NOOOOOO!

THIS CANNOT GO AWAY!

FINISH THE UNEARTHED ARCANA AND MONSTER MANUAL!

PLEASE!
8)

I stalled out on the letter "D" of the Monster Manual and fixed some Unearthed Arcana "mistakes". Soon I'll be on Christmas vacation so I'll definitely work on both.

To be honest I'm almost done with Unearthed Arcana because I don't want to add too much baggage to my rule revision. I'd like to keep things simple.

I'm pretty sure my updated Unearthed Arcana is on my website for download. The changes are pretty minor (mostly balancing the races).
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Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
I stalled out on the letter "D" of the Monster Manual and fixed some Unearthed Arcana "mistakes". Soon I'll be on Christmas vacation so I'll definitely work on both.

To be honest I'm almost done with Unearthed Arcana because I don't want to add too much baggage to my rule revision. I'd like to keep things simple.

I'm pretty sure my updated Unearthed Arcana is on my website for download. The changes are pretty minor (mostly balancing the races).

You know what your Unearthed Arcana needs?
Traits.

'course you'll have to redo them to match your formatting, but hey...

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Post by Jason Vey »

So...get any work done over Christmas break?

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Post by csperkins1970 »

The Grey Elf wrote:
So...get any work done over Christmas break? ;)

Well, after careful consideration, I rebooted my Monster Manual, using the 2nd edition Monstrous Manual as my inspiration/starting point.

Once again, I'm up to the letter "D"(complete with art) and am chugging along at work. Trust me... it takes a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time to do this.

Here's a quick sample:
Aarakocra

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tropical and temperate mountains

FREQUENCY: Very rare

NO. APPEARING: 1d10

ORGANIZATION: Tribal

TYPE: Humanoid

SIZE: M (20' wing span)

ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day

DIET: Carnivore

INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)

ALIGNMENT: Neutral good

ARMOR CLASS: 13

MOVEMENT: 6, Fl 36 (C)

HIT DICE: 1+2

ATTACKS: 2 claws (1d3) and a bite (1d3), or by weapon

SPECIAL: Dive, summon elemental, twilight vision

SPELL RESISTANCE: Nil

SAVES: P

MORALE: Steady (11)

TREASURE: D

XP VALUE: 15+1

The aarakocra are a race of intelligent bird-men that live on the peaks of the highest mountains, spending their days soaring on the thermal winds in peace and solitude.

Aarakocra are about 5 feet tall and have a wing span of 20 feet. About halfway along the edge of each wing is a hand with three human-sized fingers and an opposable thumb. An elongated fourth finger extends the length of the wing and locks in place for flying. Though the wing-hands cannot grasp during flight, they are nearly as useful as human hands when an aarakocra is on the ground and its wings are folded back. The wing muscles anchor in a bony chest plate that provides the aarakocra with extra protection. The powerful legs end in four sharp talons that can unlock and fold back to reveal another pair of functional hands, also with three human-sized fingers and an opposable thumb. The hand bones, like the rest of an aarakocra's skeleton, are hollow and fragile.

Aarakocra faces resemble crosses between parrots and eagles. They have gray-black beaks, and black eyes set frontally in their heads that provide keen binocular vision. Plumage color varies from tribe to tribe, but generally males are red, orange, and yellow while females are brown and gray. Aarakocra speak their own language, the language of giant eagles, and, on occasion, the common tongue (10% chance).
COMBAT: In aerial combat, an aarakocra fights with either talons or the heavy fletched javelins that he clutches in his lower hands. An aarakocra typically carries a half dozen javelins strapped to his chest in individual sheaths. The javelins, which can be used for throwing or stabbing, inflict 2d4 points of damage. Owing to the aarakocra's remarkable skill at throwing javelins in the air, it incurs none of the attack penalties for aerial missile fire. An aarakocra will always save its last javelin for stabbing purposes rather than throwing it.

An aarakocra is reluctant to engage in grappling or ground combat, since its fragile bones are easily broken. Though rarely used except when cornered, an aarakocra's sharp beak can bite for 1-3 points of damage.
DIVE: Its favorite attack is to dive at a victim while clutching a javelin in each hand, then pull out of the dive just as it reaches its target, and strike with a blood-curdling shriek. This attack gains a +4 bonus to the attack roll and causes double damage, but an aarakocra must dive at least 200 feet to execute it properly.
SUMMON ELEMENTAL: Five aarakocra, including a shaman, can summon a 12 hit die air elemental by chanting and performing an intricate aerial dance for three melee rounds. The summoned air elemental will comply with the aarakocras' request for a favor, though it will not endanger its life on their behalf.
HABITAT/SOCIETY: Aarakocra live in small tribes of about 11-30 (1d20+10) members. Each tribe has a hunting territory of about 10,000 square miles with colorful banners and pennants marking the boundaries.

Each tribe lives in a communal nest made of woven vines with a soft lining of dried grass. The eldest male serves as the tribe's leader. In tribes of more than 20 members, the second oldest male serves as the shaman, leading simple religious ceremonies involving the whistling of melodic hymns at sunset on the first day of a new month. Males spend most of their waking hours hunting for food and occasionally for treasure, such as gems and other shiny objects. Females spend eight months of the year incubating their eggs, passing the time by fabricating javelins and other tools from wood and stone. While resting on their backs, aarakocra females can use all four hands at the same time to weave boundary pennants, javelins sheaths, and other useful objects from vines and feathers.

Aarakocra are extremely claustrophobic and will not willingly enter a cave, building, or other enclosed area.
ECOLOGY: Aarakocra have little to do with other species, including neighboring aarakocra tribes, and leave their home territory only in extreme circumstances. They rarely encounter humans except for an occasional foray into a rural community to snatch a stray farm animal; this is not an intentionally malicious act, as aarakocra are unable to distinguish between domestic and wild animals. A human venturing into aarakocra territory may be able to convince one to serve as a guide or a scout in exchange for a shiny jewel or coin.
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Post by Treebore »

For what it is worth I have shamelessly gone through this thread and downloaded everyones rules variations for me to use, if I ever want to.

For instance my youngest son has been hitting me up to play a Necromancer (he really seems to want to explore the good and evil issues of this "class"). I've been telling him to just play a wizard who really likes using and creating spells related to undead.

But I see that CSP. has already written up a Necromancer, including spell list, that my son and I can use for a much more focused character. So that will be cool.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

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Post by csperkins1970 »

VERY kewl Treebore!

I'm happy to have helped you and your son out. Let me know if there's anything else I can work on for you.
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Post by Treebore »

My son has read it over and wants to do it. He is just concerned about becoming evil.

So I talked to him about Karma, letting him know that as a Necromancer every spell he casts builds up negative Karma, so he will have to do as many good acts as he can to create positive Karma to off set the negative build up.

He says that sounds good. So we will give it a try.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael

Grand Knight Commander of the Society.

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Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
VERY kewl Treebore!

I'm happy to have help you and your son out. Let me know if there's anything else I can work on for you.

UNEARTHED ARCANA! WE WANTS IT, PRECIOUS! WE WANTS IT FINISHED, NOW!!!

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Post by Metathiax »

CS, I don't think The Grey Elf is going to let it go anytime soon. Go back to work!
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Post by Jason Vey »

Metathiax wrote:
CS, I don't think The Grey Elf is going to let it go anytime soon. Go back to work!

For the record, I got an old 16th or so printing of the 1E PHB for like a buck, then I cut out the pages and glued the PDF of CS's AD&D into the covers.

It's so cool it's painful

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Post by csperkins1970 »

Metathiax wrote:
CS, I don't think The Grey Elf is going to let it go anytime soon. Go back to work!

Tell me about it!
I've been working on it at work (a little) and a home (a little more). Unfortunately my wife actually wants to spend time with me each evening, severely limiting my geek-work time
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Post by csperkins1970 »

The Grey Elf wrote:
For the record, I got an old 16th or so printing of the 1E PHB for like a buck, then I cut out the pages and glued the PDF of CS's AD&D into the covers.

It's so cool it's painful

Man... that's hardcore!

You do me great honor.
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Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
Man... that's hardcore!

You do me great honor.

In two weeks I begin running it, using my Domaria campaign setting.

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Post by csperkins1970 »

The Grey Elf wrote:
In two weeks I begin running it, using my Domaria campaign setting.

Rock on!

Just so you know, I've been slavishly retooling Unearthed Arcana and will try to finish it this week.

I've added the cloistered cleric and psionicist to the rules and will make some minor changes to the demihuman subraces, and to the anti-paladin, necromancer and duelist. I've also added an overview of the planes of existence to it.

I look forward to seeing how the playtest of my rule revisions go. Good luck!

PS: I've also made some minor revisions to the PHB and will re-post it in a little bit.
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Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
Rock on!

Just so you know, I've been slavishly retooling Unearthed Arcana and will try to finish it this week.

I've added the cloistered cleric and psionicist to the rules and will make some minor changes to the demihuman subraces, and to the anti-paladin, necromancer and duelist. I've also added an overview of the planes of existence to it.

I look forward to seeing how the playtest of my rule revisions go. Good luck!

PS: I've also made some minor revisions to the PHB and will re-post it in a little bit.

In addition to your knowledge skills, I've also added my Backgrounds and Traits systems to char gen, which adds a nice bit of mechanical customization for players.

In addition, rather than skills allowing players to add class level to rolls (which everything that isn't someone else's class ability should do anyway), I have all skills/backgrounds add a flat +5 to the d10 roll whenever they come into play, basically treating a non-Prime as though it were Prime, and improving a Prime by +5.

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Unearthed Arcana is almost finished and the PHB is updated

Post by csperkins1970 »

My updated, nearly complete UA and my current version of the PHB are now available for download (see website link on the button below). Let me know what you think and what needs to be added to UA to make it better.

Thanks!
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Re: Unearthed Arcana is almost finished and the PHB is updat

Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
My updated, nearly complete UA and my current version of the PHB are now available for download (see website link on the button below). Let me know what you think and what needs to be added to UA to make it better.

Thanks!

What's changed in the PHB? Am I going to need to re-print and re-bind?

Re: the UA...

KICKASS. Needs a table of contents and back cover...and I've re-thought my position on clerical domains. They could go in there, as they provide a neat customization ability that makes every faith unique. Rather than bonus spells, the domains could just add extra spells to the cleric's list, and a granted ability. Just a thought.

Last but not least...how about a good old-fashioned RANDOM DUNGEON GENERATOR?

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Post by Metathiax »

Quote:
Last but not least...how about a good old-fashioned RANDOM DUNGEON GENERATOR?

I've got one of those on my web page. It's up for grabs if you are interested...
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Re: Unearthed Arcana is almost finished and the PHB is updat

Post by csperkins1970 »

The Grey Elf wrote:
What's changed in the PHB? Am I going to need to re-print and re-bind?

Re: the UA...

KICKASS. Needs a table of contents and back cover...and I've re-thought my position on clerical domains. They could go in there, as they provide a neat customization ability that makes every faith unique. Rather than bonus spells, the domains could just add extra spells to the cleric's list, and a granted ability. Just a thought.

Last but not least...how about a good old-fashioned RANDOM DUNGEON GENERATOR?

Sorry to say but I noticed a few spells (Teleport without Error for example) were missing from the PHB. With only me writing/editing it's been slow work, especially because I can't playtest the rule and have no one else pouring over the pdf looking for errata.

When UA is done, it'll have a TOC, a section on NPCs (I was thinking of handling them as 3-level classes that are well behind the curve for BtH and HD progressions), clerical domains and whatever good stuff you guys can come up with!

I'll save the random dungeon generator for the DMG... which will come after the mammoth Monster Manual (which should take me all spring to finish).
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Re: Unearthed Arcana is almost finished and the PHB is updat

Post by Jason Vey »

csperkins1970 wrote:
Sorry to say but I noticed a few spells (Teleport without Error for example) were missing from the PHB. With only me writing/editing it's been slow work, especially because I can't playtest the rule and have no one else pouring over the pdf looking for errata.

Shit happens. I can roll with it, and look those spells up in the PDF if I need 'em .
Quote:
When UA is done, it'll have a TOC, a section on NPCs (I was thinking of handling them as 3-level classes that are well behind the curve for BtH and HD progressions), clerical domains and whatever good stuff you guys can come up with!

Sweet.
Quote:
I'll save the random dungeon generator for the DMG... which will come after the mammoth Monster Manual (which should take me all spring to finish).

Cripes, you're doing a DMG, too!? What could you possibly need to put in there?

As for the Monster Manual...I plan to use my 1E AD&D monster manuals and just flip the creature AC's

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Post by Jason Vey »

Metathiax wrote:
I've got one of those on my web page. It's up for grabs if you are interested...

I've seen it...it's pretty cool, but to keep that TRUE old-skool feel, it totally needs random encounter tables for the rooms as well. Nothing like those heady early days, where you could walk into a 20 X 20 room and find a black dragon that couldn't logically be there, ready to eat your face!

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Post by serleran »

I've got a 24 page dungeon generator. Looking for feedback and playtesting. NDA assumed if one wishes to look.

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Post by Orpheus »

serleran wrote:
I've got a 24 page dungeon generator. Looking for feedback and playtesting. NDA assumed if one wishes to look.

I'd like to see that! Twenty-four pages?

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Post by serleran »

Yep, 24 pages. Some of it is the random monster tables, though.

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Post by Orpheus »

serleran wrote:
Yep, 24 pages. Some of it is the random monster tables, though.

That's just as good as well. Coming from 2e I'm a little more familiar with the monster tables than the dungeons tables. That's more of something which I've gotten a chance to look at in the past month that I finally got my 1st edition Dungeon Masters Guide. That'd would be a good thing to use to play solo just as a little playtest for DM's. If you're needing people to test it (with an assumed NDA of course) I'd be glad to. I have a game coming up on February 10th that would be a good chance to try something like that out.

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