Class EPP Progressions

[Digital_Thaumaturgy]

There's a thread about the variations in EPP progression that got me thinking about a subject that is very important to the game I plan to run starting either this week or next. Namely, how do I determine the progression for homebrew classes? This is important because I plan to run a game set in Azeroth (of Warcraft fame, for those not familiar). I know, I know, but the setting is actually pretty cool if you get rid of all the ridiculous, overpowered character abilities and such and boil it down to its core.
Anyway, there are a couple of classes in the setting's lore that aren't represented well by the classes in the PHB, particularly the shaman, hunter, shadow priest and witch doctor. Hence, I am busily working on making classes that match up with the power levels of the classes currently in the PHB, which is not too tough except for their EPP.

How do I create a viable progression for this? I have looked at the charts in the book, going so far as to make a big spreadsheet in Works, and I can't find the internal logic of the numbers. I know that PCs are supposed to be balanced at their current experience totals and not necessarily levels, but I can't figure out for the life of me why a ranger's EPP is so close to a fighter's and not just identical (just to name an example).

Basically, I am wondering why the specific numbers chosen for the EPP are what they are so that I can emulate that logic with the EPP for my classes.

Am I better off matching the class I create to the one most like it in the book, and saying to use the EPP of that class (for instance, having a shadow priest use the cleric EPP).?

Thanks in advance for any comments or help.

[Buttmonkey]

There is an underlying "formula," but it is secret. Serleran claims to have deduced it, but he isn't around these days and I don't think he shares this info anyway. The EPPs are based on each class's abilities. My understanding is you can basically take any given class ability and assign an XP cost for it. The EPPs are then based on the cumulative costs for these abilities.

For your purposes, I'd recommend you compare your new classes to the existing ones and base the EPP off the closest existing class in terms of power levels and abilities. Or you could do an exhaustive analysis of the existing EPPs versus class abilities like Serleran. That sounds like more work.

[Treebore]

Digital_Thaumaturgy wrote:
Am I better off matching the class I create to the one most like it in the book, and saying to use the EPP of that class (for instance, having a shadow priest use the cleric EPP).?

Thanks in advance for any comments or help.

Yes, until the CKG comes out in September/October, this is the best methodology.

Remember, BtH is a power, and one of the best, in any RPG game, so its given a high XP value. After that is spellcasting, then how heavy the armors you wear are, then skill type abilities, etc...

So that is a start for you. However you may just want to do up your own little system, because one thing I seriously disagree with in C&C is that a Paladin requires more XP to level than a Cleric or Wizard.

However I think the Wizard progresses (after 9th level) at the same rate as fighter because casting powerful spells is considered to be on par with as high a BtH as the fighter has. However, the spell abilities of a Paladin are so small in comparison, I don't get it. Maybe being immune to fear?

I did have SErleran's XP breakdown of the classes until my comp died week before last, but even if I still had it I promised not to share, so nuke out something that makes sense to you, or hold off until the CKG is released.

I played an epic level game in the world fo WoW, as a Warlock, from first to 48th level, it is a very interesting world. Far more interesting as an RPG than as its online counter part, which I have also played. Got too bored with it in the level 60 range.
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[Digital_Thaumaturgy]

Thanks guys for the advice. I'll just do what seems most logical to me, since I have no interest in reverse engineering the XP values of class abilities from the PHB. I never liked 3e / 3.5e for just that sort of thing (all the time spent on calculations instead of writing intriguing scenarios).

Treebore wrote:
I played an epic level game in the world fo WoW, as a Warlock, from first to 48th level, it is a very interesting world. Far more interesting as an RPG than as its online counter part, which I have also played. Got too bored with it in the level 60 range.

Yeah, I grew tired of the MMO version very quickly, but I got the d20 RPG of it for the lore. I am just absolutely in love with the world (even though a lot of what is in the RPG book is outdated... grr).
When I get my classes done, at least in a solid second draft form, I'll post em somewhere and give links.

[Relaxo]

LIke they said, start with existing classes and work from there.

They aren't all even in C&C, like, doubling each level, not that simple.

I've had success, IMO (I may be alone in this opinion, LOL) with taking averages of EPPs. what I mean is if I think a class is in between Wizard and Paladin in relative power, I'll average the EPP for wizard and paladin to make the table.

I dunno.

Also, if the class gains a power at a given level, that level may need more XP than the average before that... ish.

So basically, fake it as best you can using the existing tables until the CKG is published.

I'm no help at all.

[Lord Dynel]

Agreed with my esteemed colleagues. Figure out what class mostly resembles your new class and just use that chart.
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[gideon_thorne]

Start with an existing class, that your new class most resembles. Then turn to the page in the M&T where it talks about XP cost for class abilities for magic items (page 88: Creating Unusual Items) and work out the cost thataway for adding a new ability to this modified class at a given level.
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[jaguar451]

Or go with "Folks [players], these are new classes. I haven't figured out exact EPP, so we're going to wing it for a while and you'll level up around the same time as the other characters...."

unless all your players pick the new classes....

....in which case, go with "Level up when it seems to make sense."

[Digital_Thaumaturgy]

Thanks guys for the info. Believe it or not, until Treebore's reply in this thread I didn't even know a CKG was planned.
I'm definitely picking that up the first chance I get.

[Lord Dynel]

Digital_Thaumaturgy wrote:
I'm definitely picking that up the first chance I get.

You're not alone!
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LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.

[Maliki]

Lord Dynel wrote:
Agreed with my esteemed colleagues. Figure out what class mostly resembles your new class and just use that chart.

+1
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[serleran]

For simplicity, it is generally best to find something familiar and then modify as needed, leaving the underpinning intact. For a more direct and total build, one could start from ground level, but I usually suggest the more lenient and easy method; there have been a couple of "class construction" methods proposed on these baords, which I could likely dig up if you wanted.
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