Forsaken and Constitution

[Digital_Thaumaturgy]

As many of the regulars on this board probably know by now, I am working on an adaptation of the Warcraft setting to C&C. There are some definite sticking points though, mainly because Blizzard has put their own spin on so many familiar fantasy elements. Of course, that's part of why I like the setting.

Anyway, I need help with something.

In other d20 / OGL based games, undead creatures do not have Constitution scores and automatically fail all Constitution checks because they are, well, dead. This doesn't seem appropriate for C&C because of the way the SEIGE engine and saves work, but I cannot in fact find any specific references to non-existent attributes, nor does the undead type in the Monsters & Treasure book even make a reference to undead not having a Constitution score.

This is an issue since in the Warcraft universe, there is a type of playable undead. Do undead have Constitution scores in C&C rules as written, and if so, would it be appropriate to assign a modifier to Constitution for an undead PC? Would the modifier be positive (since undead tend to be very resilient) or negative (since being dead tends to adversely impact one's health)? If I went with the standard "undead don't have a Constitution score", should they be allowed to make Constitution-based checks and saves as though their Con modifier were +0?

[gideon_thorne]

Creatures in C&C have either a Mental, Physical or Both attribute. That stands in place of an actual 'score' which, in C&C, is largely irrelevant save to break ties.

Whether or not a given type of undead can have the equivalent of a con check, is entirely up to you. The modifier they use to make such a check though is their # of HD. Whether its a prime check or not depends on whether they have a P or an M (or both) next to their "Saves" line.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Steerpike]

In the d20 World of Warcraft game, Forsaken just don't get a CON bonus, so they have no bonus to HP or to saves.
_________________
"There are two kinds of people in the world: those with guns, and those who dig." - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

[serleran]

Undead, for the most part, should generally be considered immune to things which naturally affect only the living, such as most poisons and diseases; this does not mean they cannot carry or deliver them, however, much like a rat which is usually unaffected by the viral nature of its inhabitant (in fact rats have an innate sense to determine whether another of its kind is fit for mating [unblemished by disease]). Therefore, the lack of a Constitution score does not really translate into anything other than "assumed immunity."
_________________
If it matters, leave a message at the beep.
Serl's Corner

[Lord Dynel]

serleran wrote:
Undead, for the most part, should generally be considered immune to things which naturally affect only the living, such as most poisons and diseases; this does not mean they cannot carry or deliver them, however, much like a rat which is usually unaffected by the viral nature of its inhabitant (in fact rats have an innate sense to determine whether another of its kind is fit for mating [unblemished by disease]). Therefore, the lack of a Constitution score does not really translate into anything other than "assumed immunity."

This is how I'd look at it, DT. Consider the things in C&C that Con saves are for - Disease, Energy Drain, and Poison being the primary examples. Well, as serl said, two of those - poison and disease - aren't going to be an issue since most of the time undead are immune to them. And, if you consider energy drain to be a "negative energy" type of thing, then I'd say they're immune to that, too. But the lasck of bonus hit points is a fair tradeoff most of the time, I'd say. And an automatic fauilure to any con saves not of the above would help balance it out as well.
_________________
LD's C&C creations - the witch, a half-ogre, skill and 0-level rules

Troll Lord wrote:
Lord D: you understand where I"m coming from.