Knowlege Skills

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Laslo Tremaine

Knowlege Skills

Post by Laslo Tremaine »

So how are people handling Knowledge Skills in their games?

I assume they are INT based. But if someone has INT as a Prime do you just let them roll to know pretty much anything?

Do you base it on Class and character background? ie, Rangers would be able to do an INT check to see if what they know about a particular wilderness creature or plant, Clerics would be able to make a check for various religious lore, etc.

But what about other stuff? Do you let everyone make a check (and add their level) for area knowlege if they are a local?

What about essoteric lore or obscure history? Is that only the provence of the Bard?

I am thinking about letting people who have INT as a Prime pick a number of areas of specialization equal to thier INT bonus (just like extra languages).

Thoughts? Experiences?

Metathiax

Post by Metathiax »

Quote:
But if someone has INT as a Prime do you just let them roll to know pretty much anything?

No, I only allow a roll if it is related to the character concept. Otherwise, they know what they know...
Quote:
Do you base it on Class and character background?

Yes, I plead guilty on both counts.
Quote:
But what about other stuff?

Case by case judgement call by the CK.
Quote:
I am thinking about letting people who have INT as a Prime pick a number of areas of specialization equal to thier INT bonus (just like extra languages).

You could but I don't see this as being a necessity and INT would then become the dump stat of choice for the players since they would both get skills and languages from it.
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PeelSeel2
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Post by PeelSeel2 »

I take a quick look at the type of knowledge they are tryng to find out, determine which classes I believe would have a chance at knowing it, and then tell them to roll. Sometimes, if I feel a class may know it, but not 'as well' as another, I will let them try it at half level instead of full level.
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Metathiax

Post by Metathiax »

Quote:
Sometimes, if I feel a class may know it, but not 'as well' as another, I will let them try it at half level instead of full level.

I also do that.
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Post by Omote »

I have skills in my C&C games similar to those in v3.5, except slimmed down with a splash of 2E style. My knowledge skills are "open" in that you can select any type of knowledge, but I have a good general list to pick from. This skills each are associated with a relavent attribute and are checked like any other skill or ability in C&C.

This system has worked out surprisingly well IMO.

Every character also gets to roll up a secondary skill (much like 1E).

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Philotomy Jurament

Re: Knowlege Skills

Post by Philotomy Jurament »

Laslo Tremaine wrote:
Do you base it on Class and character background?

Yep.
Quote:
But what about other stuff? Do you let everyone make a check (and add their level) for area knowlege if they are a local?

Sure; I'd consider "local knowledge" part of their character background.
Quote:
What about essoteric lore or obscure history? Is that only the provence of the Bard?

No, not necessarily. Again, I fall back on their class and background. If it makes sense for them, I'll let them try.
Quote:
I am thinking about letting people who have INT as a Prime pick a number of areas of specialization equal to thier INT bonus (just like extra languages).

Well, you certainly could. More, and more, though, I find that I like leaving those things undefined, and just using class/background/common sense to make a judgment about it. Any time you quantify skills, you're also implementing restrictions. That is, for the lists/picks to have meaning and value, you have to rule that you need that "skill pick" in order to attempt it (or attempt it with a good chance of success). Sometimes, it might make sense for the character to have knowledge or skill that he didn't have enough "picks" for. As a DM, I prefer the freedom to make that call, myself. As a player, I like being able to fall back on "hey, I'm a Cleric from this Kingdom -- shouldn't I know something about this subject?" without worrying about whether I have the subject written down on my sheet.

YMMV, as always.

Laslo Tremaine

Post by Laslo Tremaine »

Thanks for the replies.

I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said, but...

The main reason I am asking is that one of my players has said that he wants to create "an illusionist who eventually wants to become a sage, interested in geography and history."

So I'm trying to figure out how to adjudicate that one...

Metathiax

Post by Metathiax »

Quote:
The main reason I am asking is that one of my players has said that he wants to create "an illusionist who eventually wants to become a sage, interested in geography and history."

If one of my players were to come to me with an interesting character concept that required the addition of a skill or knowledge used mainly for role-playing purposes (by that I mean, among other things, no quantifiable adventuring advantage), I would simply let him (within reasonable limits of course...). It would also incite your other players to develop the background of their character, so it's a win-win situation.
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Post by gideon_thorne »

Laslo Tremaine wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said, but...

The main reason I am asking is that one of my players has said that he wants to create "an illusionist who eventually wants to become a sage, interested in geography and history."

So I'm trying to figure out how to adjudicate that one...

Simple. Give him xp specifically for the use of the 'knowledge' he can use to buy up +'s in that given area. About 1500 xp per +1 ought to work well.

Consider it an 'rp' award.
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Philotomy Jurament

Post by Philotomy Jurament »

Laslo Tremaine wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said, but...

The main reason I am asking is that one of my players has said that he wants to create "an illusionist who eventually wants to become a sage, interested in geography and history."

So I'm trying to figure out how to adjudicate that one...

If the interest is a "general interest" as part of the PC's background, I'd allow ability checks on it without any level bonus. Normally, that works fine.

However, it sounds like your player wants an ability that improves over time (i.e. it's central the the character's conception and he is constantly studying and improving), but is not something typically associated with his character class. The easiest way to model that in C&C is with a level bonus added to the roll. You *could* just say "okay, that's part of your PC, and you get to add a level bonus," but you'll need to be careful, because everyone will start doing this. That could be a good thing, but it could be a bad thing if your players try to squeeze advantage out of it by defining extensive backgrounds and then claiming they should have level bonus applied to all sorts of checks. If you think that will be the case, I'd do something like gideon_thorne suggests: an XP cost.

You can handle the XP thing several ways. One way would be to use Gary Gygax's "secondary skills" approach. Another way would be to give the PC a custom XP progression, using serleran's "deconstruction" approach.

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Post by DangerDwarf »

PeelSeel2 wrote:
I take a quick look at the type of knowledge they are tryng to find out, determine which classes I believe would have a chance at knowing it, and then tell them to roll. Sometimes, if I feel a class may know it, but not 'as well' as another, I will let them try it at half level instead of full level.

I do something similiar. But, instead of only allowing half-level or something, if they make a succesful roll they simply don't get the same detail of information I would give a class more suited towrds it.

Laslo Tremaine

Post by Laslo Tremaine »

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
However, it sounds like your player wants an ability that improves over time (i.e. it's central the the character's conception and he is constantly studying and improving), but is not something typically associated with his character class. The easiest way to model that in C&C is with a level bonus added to the roll. You *could* just say "okay, that's part of your PC, and you get to add a level bonus," but you'll need to be careful, because everyone will start doing this. That could be a good thing, but it could be a bad thing if your players try to squeeze advantage out of it by defining extensive backgrounds and then claiming they should have level bonus applied to all sorts of checks. If you think that will be the case, I'd do something like gideon_thorne suggests: an XP cost.

BINGO!

That is indeed my problem. If you just say that knowledge skills are determined by the character's background, that could lead to a lot of abuse ("but my character was raised in the restricted stacks of the imperial library...").

Luckily my players are all pretty decent. But I do want to cover my bases.

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