Troll Lord Games

I want to make the different races radically different when they take the same classes. For example, I want dwarven fighters to be very different than elven fighters. I want gnomish bards to be very different than halfling bards, and so on. I'd like ideas on how to do this. For example...

- human wizards use the vancian system, but maybe elf wizards use a spell point system

- elves use illusion, enchantment & nature spells, but no fireballs, lightning bolts, etc

- dwarven wizards use only spells dealing with weapons, armor, stone, metal, runes, etc. But they also may wear armor and have the to Hit progression of clerics

- elf fighters are more like samurai than vikings, using technique, speed, and precision rather than brute force. They use Dex for all attack bonuses instead of strength and tend to use light weapons that do less damage but allow more attacks per round.

Any ideas for me?

It looks like you've got yourself started in the direction you seek. Though I don't envy you the amount of work you've set out for yourself as well.
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.

Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-

High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society

Yeah, what Googleplex said.

It does sound cool, and like you're off to a good start.

Consider specific weapon lists for reach race/class combo... or maybe make the races all classes, in fact, and use the class and a half rules to mix them.... that's probably even more work.

I'd say your off to a great start, just load up on caffeine and bang out ideas until you're dry... then force out 10 more. that's always a good brain storm for me.

YMMV

Does sound interesting, but also like a lot of work -- both in the initial set of rules for each, and then ensuring some sense of balance.

Although for specific thoughts, do you have a library of RPGs from which to lift, er, leverage ideas? Or from house rules on the net to use as starting points, such as....

"Wizards":

Halfling: Witch (I like the one from http://home.rr.com/lorddynel)

Dwarf: Runemark (http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/ ... llordgames)

Elf: Could go with Advanced Spell Casting Spell Point System (linked from http://www.cncplayer.net/) or something based off of http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... magic.html (not C&C, but easy to convert)

Gnome: Illusionist

Human: By the book

(although the more systems, the more you need to remember as the CK, and then Balance if everyone in your group likes spell point casters the best - lots of pointy ears....)

Fighters:

Dwarf: Weapon Specialization turns into Armor Specialization (or Dwarven Defender from that other game....)

Elf: Duelist (http://www.grey-elf.com/candc/) or Spellsword from Netbook of classes or they are all Rangers....

Halfling: Archer (Slingest?), such as http://home.comcast.net/~danbuter/Archer.pdf

Human: Standard

1/2 Orc: Barbarian

Or just up racial bonus / minus', which will lead players to choose certain options... Elves get plus' in light armor and minus' to STR. Dwarves get armor specialization, minus' to DEX.... Halflings & Gnomes have initiative minus' in melee combat, Etc.)

Cleric:

A thread on domains: http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/ ... llordgames

and on specialty clerics http://www.freeyabb.com/trolllordgames/ ... llordgames

Pick representative ones per race...

(and/or certain races have to be Druids. And I think there is a Shaman class to use for 1/2 Orcs. Halflings could be Friars - Netbook of Classes..)

First, I would decide what "classes" each race was allowed to play -- you might not want a halfling knight, for example, or want to let the dwarf play a wizard. If this is the case, it will make things simpler. Then, for each of the combinations, I would create wholly new classes, possibly with their own XP and / or spell progressions. Would it be a lot of work? Not necessarily -- if, to you, an elf is a fighter-wizard-thief, then you only have one class to do. People tend to want to create more for themselves than they need, though.
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Serl's Corner

What I would do is go through the Complete Book of Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings from AD&D 2nd edition and pick out Kits as the basis for these racial classes. For instance, you may choose the Herbalist kit for Elves to be the Elven version of Clerics. When a player creates an Herbalist, have them create a C&C Cleric by the book. The allowed weapons will be the recommended and required weapons listed in the kit. Any recommended or bonus proficiencies listed in the kit are now considered background skills for the character and they can add their class level when using them via the SIEGE engine. Take any special benefits and special hindrances from the kit "as is".

I use this system across the board in C&C. If a player wants to be a samurai, they play a fighter and then apply the samurai kit as I described above. Works great!
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Rusty

I'm thinking of attribute prime restrictions, i.e. if a race has a penalty to an ability score, then that score cannot be designated as prime.

As a "under the hood" suggestion is to combine the new "class and half" option with one or more of the suggestions above (class restrictions by race, 2ed kits, etc.) With 13 classes, you'll get some variety. Especially if you look at the effects offered by the class instead of the class name. i.e. Barbarian could be an elven ronin.

As a GM to GM suggestion: Take your final creations (like an Elven Knight/Cleric class and half with a Herbalist 2 ed kit) and cut and paste them into new word documents with the adjust XP, your players will never know the difference.

I have used restricted classes for races on such Campaign worlds as Corona and Shannara. I used the Bard and Ranger class from D&D 3.5 for Elves only.

JLL