Thought for the Ranger

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:22 pm

I view rangers as, not only expert woodsmen but also expert hunters, so I was thinking of adding another house rule to the Ranger. Tell me what you think.
Marksman: The ranger adds his Dex modifer to damage rolls when using any bow (but not a crossbow).

R-
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Dragonhelm · Post by **Dragonhelm** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:39 pm

I like it. I may incorporate that myself.

Why Dex and not Str? I know that Dex would be used to hit a ranged opponent, but Str is what you use to draw the bowstring back. I've seen a few magical bows throughout the years that allow you to add Str damage.

Not a criticism, just wondering on the reasoning.
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:12 pm

This is a take on the archery ability from the 2e Ravenloft Domains of Dread book. That rule allows rangers to add both Str and Dex to the damage roll. I thought that was a little bit much, so I went with just the Dex mod.

The reason behind that change is that the ranger knows the optimal place to put the arrow for maximum effect. You could subtitute Str for Dex just as easily, as you suggested.

R-
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:44 pm

Rigon wrote:
This is a take on the archery ability from the 2e Ravenloft Domains of Dread book. That rule allows rangers to add both Str and Dex to the damage roll. I thought that was a little bit much, so I went with just the Dex mod.

Then your solution is this. The Dex mod is the 'to hit' number and the characters STR mod is damage. After all, the farther one can pull back the string, the more force there is to the arrow.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:12 pm

Strength is already added to the damage inflicted by a bow. All "muscle-powered" weapons, such as thrown daggers, hand axes, and so forth, as well as all melee attacks, deal additional damage based on Strength score. So... there is no reason to have the ranger do Strength damage as it would be redundant, and not change anything.

However, I would be leery of such a rule change simply because rangers are very nasty as is. They are expert hunters: look at the survival ability. Against their foes (combat maraudar), they get their level in addition to possible Strength adjustment... even at range!

I think the rule allows the ranger to inflict too much damage. A better fix would be to change the damage done by bows.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:54 pm

Seems to be a grey area. "Mechanically" powered weapons such as crossbows dont add the STR bonus. A Bow is not specifically mentioned in either case, so there's no reason why not that such a 'house' rule can be used for archer type emphasis on characters.
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andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:10 pm

One way to have both DEX and STR involved would be to have 'weights' for the longbows. Consider a longbow with a 1D6 as a base for the bows, the lightest effective pull, and say it needs average STR, or 9-12. Then every +2 points of STR increase the 'pull' and thus the damage done. So, 1D8 at STR 14, 1D10 at STR 16, and 1D12 at STR 18, or some such progression. Then you don't have to mess with the class templates, plus you have something else to make life interesting for the PCs. An ogre with a 150 pound longbow, for instance.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:48 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
Seems to be a grey area. "Mechanically" powered weapons such as crossbows dont add the STR bonus. A Bow is not specifically mentioned in either case, so there's no reason why not that such a 'house' rule can be used for archer type emphasis on characters.

In fact I cannot find anywhere written that bows add their strength bonus. Is it a missing rule? Should not only "composite" bows allow addition of Str bonus?

baran_i_kanu · Post by **baran_i_kanu** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:57 am

rabindranath72 wrote:
In fact I cannot find anywhere written that bows add their strength bonus. Is it a missing rule? Should not only "composite" bows allow addition of Str bonus?

I only have the first printing not the second so......

on the first printing pg. 116 it distinguishes between "thrown and propelled". Thrown is identified as "javelins, daggers, spears, and the like".

Propelled weapons are described as those "whose momentum and thrust are on the mechanism which propels them forward."

It further states that the damage modifier is added to thrown weapons but NOT propelled.

Did the wording change in the 2nd printing? From "propelled" to "mechanically?"

Now I'm very curious.

thank you,

dave

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:20 am

I have 2nd printing, but I do not have the book with me now. I will check later. In any case, if there is a reason for the existence of composite bows, is that they allow the Str bonus to be used. In any case, I would rule so in my campaigns.

babbage · Post by **babbage** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:35 am

The composite bow does more damage but over a shorter distance. The longbow does less damage but over a longer distance. I do remember there being a distinction between thrown (javelins, spears, daggers et al) and propelled (crossbows, slings, et al).

The thrown receive your strength bonus as that is all that propels it, whereas the propelled do not. You could consider that the propelled are already adding the weapon's inherent bonus already in the damage that it does.

In my campaign I use the rule as stated - thrown receives strength bonus in damage, propelled do not. However, you could argue that bows could be made for certain strengths. For example, a bow designed for someone with a strength of 18 would do more damage, but could not be used by anyone with less strength. I personally have used longbows and they are a bugger to string, let alone pull!

Perhaps a better rule for the ranger is to say that they get an inherent +1 bonus to damage when fighting beasts (such as deer, bears and so on) as they are intimately aware of their anatomy. I personally wouldn't as I think rangers are powerful enough already. But each to his own.

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:48 pm

Or, to simulate "hunting" say Combat Maraudar applies to animals. Note, not magical beasts, not beasts, not vermin, not plants.... animals. There aren't many of them, anyway. (Well, there are lots of them in the real world, but not many have been officially written up.)

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:48 pm

serleran wrote:
Or, to simulate "hunting" say Combat Maraudar applies to animals. Note, not magical beasts, not beasts, not vermin, not plants.... animals. There aren't many of them, anyway. (Well, there are lots of them in the real world, but not many have been officially written up.)

I can see it now, the mighty 15th level ranger carefully takes aim at a little bunny -- soon to become supper. He lets fly the arrow with perfect precision.

Let's see... using a shortbow... and +2 for Str.

1d6 + 17 damage

Hmm... the rabbit appears to explode upon the arrow's impact!

JK
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:40 pm

Exactly my point, actually. The ranger would never need to make such an attack, as the ability is already covered. Its called "survival."

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:27 am

Rigon wrote:
I view rangers as, not only expert woodsmen but also expert hunters, so I was thinking of adding another house rule to the Ranger. Tell me what you think.

Well, if he's a tin woodsmen, make sure he has a heart!
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:48 am

Bah, why not dress him in a pink tutu while you're at it? Archery is for pansys who can't weild a sword or axe. For cowards afraid to face their foes like a real man. A bow is for hunting, it is a tool, not a weapon.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:57 am

JRR wrote:
Bah, why not dress him in a pink tutu while you're at it? Archery is for pansys who can't weild a sword or axe. For cowards afraid to face their foes like a real man. A bow is for hunting, it is a tool, not a weapon.

LOL! Heh, yep except when yer enemy goblins, kobolds and orcs are firing arrows at you from a distance. You'll be dead long before you can pull out yer big manly sword or axe. If fact, your lame body will be roasting on a spit while the goblns and orcs sing songs about your courage and wisdom (foolishness actually) in not deploying a ranged weapon!
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:00 am

Heh, my point is a ranger needs no bonuses with a bow. He can use one fine as is and should certainly use it when needed, but to be BETTEr at it than at melee smacks of pansy shield surfing elf fetish.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:04 am

JRR wrote:
Heh, my point is a ranger needs no bonuses with a bow. He can use one fine as is and should certainly use it when needed, but to be BETTEr at it than at melee smacks of pansy shield surfing elf fetish.

J/K with ya JRR. I'm with you. Too many bonuses spoils the PC. But my question to you is, what's wrong with pansy elves? Hahaha.
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:26 am

Rhuvein wrote:
J/K with ya JRR. I'm with you. Too many bonuses spoils the PC. But my question to you is, what's wrong with pansy elves? Hahaha.

I have no problem with elves per say, but PANSY elves, well, that's another matter...
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:32 am

JRR wrote:
Heh, my point is a ranger needs no bonuses with a bow. He can use one fine as is and should certainly use it when needed, but to be BETTEr at it than at melee smacks of pansy shield surfing elf fetish.

I don't get the whole "BETTER at it than melee"comment. Everyone gets a bonus to damage when in melee, yet no one makes a stink about that.

And the shield surfing elf thingy, . If I was going for something as stupid as that, I would have limited it to elf rangers only.

R-
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:13 am

JRR wrote:
Bah, why not dress him in a pink tutu while you're at it? Archery is for pansys who can't weild a sword or axe. For cowards afraid to face their foes like a real man. A bow is for hunting, it is a tool, not a weapon.

*chuckles* Better to be alive and practical than dead an heroic I say.
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:18 am

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* Better to be alive and practical than dead an heroic I say.

No way, better to die Boromir's death than the thousandfold deaths of a coward.
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Will your stalwart band choose to Fight, Advance, or Run?

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:11 am

JRR wrote:
*chuckles* Better to be alive and practical than dead an heroic I say.

No way, better to die Boromir's death than the thousandfold deaths of a coward. [/quote]

Yup...forever known as 'the ring thief'.
Not the best of examples methinks.
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JRR · Post by **JRR** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:03 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
No way, better to die Boromir's death than the thousandfold deaths of a coward.

Yup...forever known as 'the ring thief'.
Not the best of examples methinks. [/quote]

Hey, you can say a lot of things about Boromir, but a coward he was not.

To the original poster: I didn't mean to come off snarky, if you want to give rangers a bonus with the bow, go right ahead, it shouldn't hurt balance much, but rangers are a pet peeve of mine. I envision Daniel Boone, Aragorn, Davy Crockett, et al getting up close and personal with their enemies, not sniping at them from the shadows.
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Will your stalwart band choose to Fight, Advance, or Run?

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:34 am

JRR wrote:
To the original poster: I didn't mean to come off snarky

Sorry about that. It's just that when anyone accuses me of even coming close to emulating anything from PJ's LotR, I get all fired up. Someday there WILL be a reconing.

Quote:
if you want to give rangers a bonus with the bow, go right ahead, it shouldn't hurt balance much, but rangers are a pet peeve of mine. I envision Daniel Boone, Aragorn, Davy Crockett, et al getting up close and personal with their enemies, not sniping at them from the shadows.

As to your other examples, IIR my history correctly, didn't Boone and Crocket do just that, snipe from the shadows.

R-
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andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:27 pm

Boone and Crockett were both famous as riflemen, first and foremost.

'Up close and personal' happened a lot, but first you discharge ole Ticklicker. First line of offense, definitely.

Couldn't resist, I grew up in East Tennessee and was inundated with stories about those guys.

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