Illusionist healing as temporary hit points?

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Lord Dynel
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Illusionist healing as temporary hit points?

Post by Lord Dynel »

If this has been brought up already, please forgive me, as I've been under a rock as of late.
I'm trying to get on board with the idea of illusionist "healing." A friend, in passing, said, "Why don't illusionists give temporary hit points instead?" I thought that was an interesting idea! What, if any, would be the pros and cons of turning these points into temporary hit points, that go away after a duration?
That, I could get on board with.
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Post by CharlieRock »

The only complication would be to work out if they stack with actual hit points.

For example:

I had 10 hp and lost 3. I got "real healed" for all three but before that I was "illusion healed". So now I have 13 hp with 3 disappearing when the duration runs out.
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csperkins1970
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Post by csperkins1970 »

I wouldn't use illusionist healing but, if I did, I'd have it be based on "shadow magic".

Illusionists have, throughout the various editions of D&D, drawn power from the Demi-Plane of Shadow. This power has allowed them to conjure quasi-real creatures and create quasi-real evocation effects. Since the Demi-Plane of Shadow lies between the Positive and Negative Material planes it could be reasoned that an illusionist that draws from the Plane of Demi-Plane of Shadow could tap into positive and negative energy to a limited extant. Positive energy could be used to heal and disrupt undead, for instance, while negative energy could be used to cause wounds or heal undead creatures.
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Post by Aladar »

csperkins1970,

That is a very good take on this subject, and an excellent justification as to why illusionists can heal. This is now my answer to the PCs.

Thanks.
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dunbruha
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Post by dunbruha »

csperkins1970 wrote:
I wouldn't use illusionist healing but, if I did, I'd have it be based on "shadow magic".

Illusionists have, throughout the various editions of D&D, drawn power from the Demi-Plane of Shadow. This power has allowed them to conjure quasi-real creatures and create quasi-real evocation effects. Since the Demi-Plane of Shadow lies between the Positive and Negative Material planes it could be reasoned that an illusionist that draws from the Plane of Demi-Plane of Shadow could tap into positive and negative energy to a limited extant. Positive energy could be used to heal and disrupt undead, for instance, while negative energy could be used to cause wounds or heal undead creatures.

But, as mentioned, "Shadow" spells are only quasi-real. So to be consistent with the other "Shadow" spells, it would only heal 20% of the hit points. A Cure Light Wounds spell would then do 20% of 1d8 hit points of healing. Maybe a Greater Cure Light Wounds spell would heal 40% of 1d8.

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Relaxo
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Post by Relaxo »

I wouldn't go temp hp as it's too much bookkeeping for me.

I re-read the magic section in the 4th print PHB and it has a good solid explanation of why it makes sense (of course I promptly forgot it).

I noticed they're all a level higher for the illusionist than the Cleric, and with a healing illusionist in the party it allows the cleric to choose some non healing cool spells, which is nice for the cleric.

Like anything else, you can just leave it out, but for me, I actually like it, and I'd go w/ healing regular healing.

Another way to go, however, is for the Illusionist healing to convert real damage into subdual damage, or heal it back as subdual damage so it's not got the same 'oomph' as "true" clerical magic. but again, more bookkeeping.
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Post by Lord Dynel »

dunbruha wrote:
But, as mentioned, "Shadow" spells are only quasi-real. So to be consistent with the other "Shadow" spells, it would only heal 20% of the hit points. A Cure Light Wounds spell would then do 20% of 1d8 hit points of healing. Maybe a Greater Cure Light Wounds spell would heal 40% of 1d8.

I agree - cs, that is a very good explanation for illusionist healing. And if it works, by all means, run with it. But in this case, I have to agree with dunbruha - going along with the "Plane of Shadow" explanation would only bug me and my players because of the long-standing knowledge that spells drawn from "shadow magic" are only, as dunbruha stated, "quasi-real."

And yeah, Relaxo, I think it would be a little more bookeeping, but in my opinion it does the same thing as they do now - increase the recipeint's hit point total. I would remove the INT save from the spell, as the target would eventually realize the healing was not real (which would explain the later removal of the temp hit points). And the temporary hit points wouldn't fix anything - the character would technically be at the same hit point total at the casting with only the "illusion" of them being okay. Being injured would still have to be addressed or it could cause serious problems later. To me, this exemplifies the illusionist - he's helping the cause, even if it just confounds the situation a bit.
CharlieRock wrote:
The only complication would be to work out if they stack with actual hit points.

For example:

I had 10 hp and lost 3. I got "real healed" for all three but before that I was "illusion healed". So now I have 13 hp with 3 disappearing when the duration runs out.

Exactly, Charlie. I don't think it would be too bad. But I understand it is only my opinion. I'm probably in the minority, but I feel this is a better (at least for me) explanation of illusionist healing - by the very fact that it's just that...an illusion. The almost dead fighter who had 90 hit points is needed to fight a little bit more. The illusionist casts Heal, knowing full well that he could be spelling the death of his friend. But without that "healing", they'd all be dead. The illusionist "tricks" the fighter's mind into thinking he's all healed up so he can save the day. But the party will need to address this situation as soon as possible. Now I understand that, as temporary hit points, should Heal (the illusionist version) be 9th level? Probably not. But I've read the Magic section of the rules and I have yet to be able to come to terms with, and accept, them.
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Post by CharlieRock »

We havn't had an illusionist in the group yet since the new PHB came out ...

But everyone in the team is pretty much agreed that when one does come along, the healing is going to be temporary HPs.
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Post by Lord Dynel »

CharlieRock wrote:
We havn't had an illusionist in the group yet since the new PHB came out ...

But everyone in the team is pretty much agreed that when one does come along, the healing is going to be temporary HPs.

There's a good chance, Charlie, that you may have an illusionist in your group before I have one in mine. Feel free to post any findings on how the temporary hp method works. Even if it's a year ow two doen the road. I'll do the same if the opportunity presents itself. This is one of those things where I'm not thrilled how it's written but don't have the chace to test an alternative any time soon.
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Post by DangerDwarf »

My current group has an illusionist in it, but not able to cast the cure spells yet.

I'm of the camp that doesn't have an issue with the healing though. My group is cool with it too. Kinda take the view that illusions are more than magical holograms, perception plays a part of reality. Illusionists can bend reality and the perception of it. Works for us.

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Post by gideon_thorne »

*chuckles* Just had a weird idea. As the illusionist gains in levels, he slowly morphs into a living illusion himself, existing only as long as those around him believe he does.
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Post by Relaxo »

Peter.

Put

the bong

down.

Doubters, even if you disallow the healing spells, the other new ones are really good.
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Post by CharlieRock »

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* Just had a weird idea. As the illusionist gains in levels, he slowly morphs into a living illusion himself, existing only as long as those around him believe he does.

Wasn't that a Twilight Zone episode?
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