'Multiclassing' a dead horse!

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:09 am

Yes... another thread about multiclassing. For that, I apologize. However, I'm trying something different and am really looking for some feedback.

I got my recent order from TLG (THANKS STEVE!) and within it was issue number 4 of the Crusader. A good issue but the articles on multiclassing didn't quite satisfy me. Of course there have been many a clarification and debate on how other people took on this ambiguous task. There was however a part of Davis's article that really got me to think with regards to archetypes and a few other bits of it that got me re-evaluating the whole multiclassing issue.

First, I really like a unified Hit Die for multiclass characters, that in part was part of my inspiration. However, by doing that, classes with a higher EPP are 'penalized' (for lack of a better term) by the slower ones with in multiclass character. Classic multiclassing where you simply divide the XP amongst the classes evenly is great and the classes would advance at different rates but resolving HP is not as elegant as it could be.

I thought for a moment, considering the concept of actually *choosing* an archetype to form the basis of the character and naturally the main focus. So why can't this reflect in multiclassing?

In short, upon character creation the player who decides upon playing a multiclass character chooses the primary class of the character. The other class (secondary class) will advance half as fast as it isn't the main focus of the character. To calculate EPP progression, I take the full XP requirement of the primary class plus half the requirement of the secondary class. Best BtH bonus is used... worst armor restrictions... same as a lot of the multiclass variants we've already seen. The Hit Dice is determined using the table in issue 4 of the Crusader. Advancement is slower than that a single class but won't have the character lagging behind nor will there be problems (shouldn't be problems) in implementing this solution in a higher level campaign.

Here's some XP calculations I made for various core class combos. It is important to keep in mind that the secondary class really is half the character level rounded down for purposes of skill checks and such:

Mage/Thief (d6/+2)

2 - 2600+625 = 3225 (1st level thief)

3 - 5200+1250 = 6450

4 - 10400+3000 = 13400 (2nd level thief)

5 - 20800+6000 = 26800

6 - 42500+12000 = 54500 (3rd level thief)

Thief/Mage (d6/+2)

2 - 1250+1300 = 2550 (1st level mage)

3 - 2500+2600 = 5100

4 - 6000+5200 = 11500 (2nd level mage)

5 - 12000+10400 = 22400

6 - 24000+21250 = 45250 (3rd level mage)

Fighter/Mage (d6/+2)

2 - 2000+1300 = 3300 (1st level mage)

3 - 4000+2600 = 6600

4 - 8500+5200 = 13700 (2nd level mage)

5 - 17000+10400 = 27400

6 - 34000+21250 = 55250 (3rd level mage)

Mage/Fighter (d6/+2)

2 - 2600+1000 = 3600 (1st level fighter)

3 - 5200+2000 = 7200

4 - 10400+4250 = 14650 (2nd level fighter)

5 - 20800+8500 = 29300

6 - 42500+17000 = 59500 (3rd level fighter)

Fighter/Thief (d8/+3)

2 - 2000+625 = 2625 (1st level thief)

3 - 4000+1250 = 5250

4 - 8500+3000 = 11500 (2nd level thief)

5 - 17000+6000 = 23000

6 - 34000+12000 = 46000 (3rd level thief)

Thief/Fighter (d8/+3)

2 - 1250+1000 = 2250 (1st level fighter)

3 - 2500+2000 = 4500

4 - 6000+4250 = 10250 (2nd level fighter)

5 - 12000+8500 = 20500

6 - 24000+17000 = 41000 (3rd level fighter)

Cleric/Mage (d6/+2)

2 - 2250+1300 = 3550 (1st level mage)

3 - 5000+2600 = 7600

4 - 9000+5200 = 14200 (2nd level mage)

5 - 18000+10400 = 28400

6 - 35000+21250 = 56250 (3rd level mage)

Mage/Cleric (d6/+2)

2 - 2600+1125 = 3725 (1st level cleric)

3 - 5200+2500 = 7700

4 - 10400+4500 = 14900 (2nd level cleric)

5 - 20800+9000 = 29800

6 - 42500+17500 = 60000 (3rd level cleric)

Fighter/Cleric (d8/+3)

2 - 2000+1125 = 3125 (1st level cleric)

3 - 4000+2500 = 6500

4 - 8500+4500 = 13000 (2nd level cleric)

5 - 17000+9000 = 26000

6 - 34000+17500 = 51500 (3rd level cleric)

Cleric/Fighter (d8/+3)

2 - 2250+1000 = 3250 (1st level fighter)

3 - 5000+2000 = 7000

4 - 9000+4250 = 13250 (2nd level fighter)

5 - 18000+8500 = 26500

6 - 35000+17000 = 52000 (3rd level fighter)

What do you guys think... Table 2 in the same issue and article also has an additional XP cost which could be implemented on top of this as well. Using the above examples... to make level 6, an additional 3000 XP would be needed according the Table 2.

Moriarty the Red
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PeelSeel2 · Post by **PeelSeel2** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:58 am

That is the kind of multi-classing I like. Good Job.
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Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:07 pm

Personally, I don't see why a dead horse would have character levels in the first place. However, if one wants to give dead horses character levels, I see no reason why they shouldn't/can't also multiclass...

...and that's all I have to say about that.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:10 pm

Nice Nelzie, nice. 8)

Dead Horse ~ Level 1, gluestick

...............................................Omote

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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:45 pm

Nelzie wrote:
Personally, I don't see why a dead horse would have character levels in the first place. However, if one wants to give dead horses character levels, I see no reason why they shouldn't/can't also multiclass...

...and that's all I have to say about that.

Smartass!
Moriarty the Red
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:50 pm

PeelSeel2 wrote:
That is the kind of multi-classing I like. Good Job.

Thanks! I'm thinking of adopting it as my new 'standard' ... if I am able to determine if it's balanced when compared to the single classes... In theory, they should be.

Of course, that's why I'm presenting the idea to my fellow Crusaders!

Moriarty the Red
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Camazotz · Post by **Camazotz** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:58 pm

Nelzie wrote:
Personally, I don't see why a dead horse would have character levels in the first place. However, if one wants to give dead horses character levels, I see no reason why they shouldn't/can't also multiclass...

...and that's all I have to say about that.

See, now, I really want to run a multiclassed Dead Horse/Flying Pig and this will help a great deal....I'd even be keen on the dreaded triple-classed Dead Horse/Flying Pig/Old Dog

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:27 pm

Camazotz wrote:
See, now, I really want to run a multiclassed Dead Horse/Flying Pig and this will help a great deal....I'd even be keen on the dreaded triple-classed Dead Horse/Flying Pig/Old Dog

:: Moriarty at this point starts banging his head on his desk... hard. ::

M
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:30 pm

Do not forget, that at a certain development stage, often considered the "old nag" level (this being around 9th - 10th level), any dead horse which has not been multiclassed (race horse, stud/mare, draft, or warhorse) must be sent to the glue factory... so, its not so much an option, as it is a mandatory procedure, especially for those players having knight characters.

The One and All · Post by **The One and All** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:08 am

What was that noise? Anyone heard it? ..... O wait, it was just Moriarty banging his head on his desk....

I guess I should go and check it out... mheh.. im lazy..

Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:06 am

Anyway...

I think what you have come up with may work out fine Moriarty.

Let us know how it works out in your campaign.
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:38 am

lol ... thanks!

I've made a slight tweak to how I'm going to run with these. Because the multiclass combinations with the new EPP is now more accessable (less harsh), I had some concerns with some of the other combos in terms of balance (EPP puts these a lot closer to the level ranges of single class characters). Notably, one of the concerns was a Bard/Thief.

What I've decided to do is add an ability score requirment of 16 for the associated primes. Those who *don't* meet the requirement can still multiclass but at an XP penalty (or rather an additional EPP cost).

This last bit gives me a bit more peace of mind in the event that someone is thinking of abusing the system. But this deterent is ultimately an optional one.

Thanks for the comments... and the laughs.

Moriarty the Red
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