Secondary Skills

andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:05 pm

Right now, I think I'll just stick with BRP to run games, play C&C if I find a game. Class and level are just counter intuitive to me as far as running a game. I am just running around in circles when I try to put it together. Anyway, best to all you Crusaders. I'll be chewing on WOTC from a different angle, maybe together we can do a little giant killing.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:33 am

andakitty wrote:
Have you posted it somewhere, like cncplayers.net? You have a site?

Here it is:
http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Hope you come back to the Crusade
And who knows, if the new BRP fixes some of the things I do not like, I might try it, too.

andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:15 pm

I'm not giving up on this. Nothing wrong with working two games. This is the best forum I have found, too, and I enjoy the discussions. And I fully intend to support Troll Lords and C&C with bucks. I just need to actually try running the game, as I am having a little difficulty getting the feel for such a free form style. I am used to BRP, which is more detailed than C&C but not as detailed as 3.0, for instance. I like skill systems, though, and so far have not really come up with one for C&C that feels 'right' for me. Something about tacking skills onto class and level, and coming up with a playable total. I am a perfectionist.

Meanwhile, as I said, I will continue to support C&C both with my business and moral support. Giant-killing! Right now I have high hopes with Troll Lords picking up steam and Chaosium reviving. I guess I am kind of junior Crusader.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:04 pm

andakitty wrote:
I'm not giving up on this. Nothing wrong with working two games. This is the best forum I have found, too, and I enjoy the discussions. And I fully intend to support Troll Lords and C&C with bucks. I just need to actually try running the game, as I am having a little difficulty getting the feel for such a free form style. I am used to BRP, which is more detailed than C&C but not as detailed as 3.0, for instance. I like skill systems, though, and so far have not really come up with one for C&C that feels 'right' for me. Something about tacking skills onto class and level, and coming up with a playable total. I am a perfectionist.

Meanwhile, as I said, I will continue to support C&C both with my business and moral support. Giant-killing! Right now I have high hopes with Troll Lords picking up steam and Chaosium reviving. I guess I am kind of junior Crusader.

As kind of a follow on to the response I made to a post you made in the general forums, I suspect your running into a problem I had when I initially started switching over to C&C. You are reflexively going for complex.

I had to sit back and very conciously ask myself, "What is the simplest way I can do what I want?"

For skills, I didn't want to have to track a ton of skills, so I gave them the whole 3E skill list for their class, with limits put on Craft, Knowledge, Profession, Prformance, etc...

But that sounds complex, you say? No it isn't, its already written out in the SRD and easily printed out and put into my campaign notebook in protectve sleeves, for easy reference. The players can do the same thng for their individual characters.

Little time spent picking and choosing (no time if you don't have an INT bonus), no time spent deciding which ones to improve, its "there is the list". Skill rank equals your level + any modifers to the relevent stat.

Not that Rigon has realized it, but if he actually started making use of more of his Bardic skill list I think he would have a lot more fun with his Bard in my game.

Skills are important, and do add a lot to the characters play, but it hasn't broken my home game, which has reached 12th level.

The argument of "so many skills step any too many toes of the classes "Class Abilities". Yes, So what? If its a class ability give them an additional +2 or +4 to their roll. There, they are clearly superior to anyone else.

I find that I like the party not having to rely on one character to make a successful role. Especially in cases of searching, spotting things, hearing things, climbing, etc....

Anyways, just in case you are buttin gyour head against the same problem I did, I thought I would put this out there for you to consider.

Now I have to go back to plowing my way through some "City of Brass" goodness.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:43 am

OK, I'll bite. I may indeed be making a mountain out of a molehill here. Link to the SRD document you downloaded?

Just a couple other questions right now. How do you parcel out skills not on the list for the class? Say, if a fighter wants to be good at climbing or a wizard wants to use a sword? 'Cause that's one of my hang-ups. The other one is how to integrate the class abilities into the skill system without having everyone just as good at climbing, say, as the 'rogue'. And do you use +2 or +4 for those thiefly class skills?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:50 am

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

andakitty · Post by **andakitty** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:08 am

And my other questions?

The skills will need a little work to fit the Siege engine, but I am giving it serious consideration. Thanks.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:49 am

andakitty wrote:
OK, I'll bite. I may indeed be making a mountain out of a molehill here. Link to the SRD document you downloaded?

Just a couple other questions right now. How do you parcel out skills not on the list for the class? Say, if a fighter wants to be good at climbing or a wizard wants to use a sword? 'Cause that's one of my hang-ups. The other one is how to integrate the class abilities into the skill system without having everyone just as good at climbing, say, as the 'rogue'. And do you use +2 or +4 for those thiefly class skills?

Sorry, had a puppy dog emergency then forgot to come back.

As to the fighter climbing, thats on his list, I hope.

Wizard/sword, "Mighty CK say MAKE IT SO!!"

If they have a skill as a class ability thats when I give them the +2 (or +4 or whatever is to your liking, remember in C&C your the BOSS!! )

Plus like in the case of climbing, once you know how to climb, what makes you a better climber than everyone else? I know you need strength and stamina, but how can you even reflect that in a skill?

If you want the "class ability" to make them superior at it, then go with a +2 or even +4 bonus to make them so.

Just figure out what makes sense to you and go with it.

Plus, whenever my players offer up an example of why they think I should rule differently I listen and if they have a good point I go with it. I can't think of every possible variable or situation, right?
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society

Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Wulfgarn · Post by **Wulfgarn** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:10 am

This may sound a bit foolish but what is BRP?

Also - the Secondary Skills availible in the the Yggsburg books have me thinking- Well I was thinking on this before I saw them as I am a huge fan of Lejendary Adventures - Why not set up an experience cost for specials in the Campaign

Feats, abilities, Knacks what have you - Special combat moves - Specific Skills bonuses, even racial abilities.

The CK is only limited by his imagination and that of his players. Well -Balancing it all might be a problem.

EP expediture to upgrade your charater in ways other than just leveling can be very intresting. Especially if you implement the need for characters to train between levels. All the EP gained after reaching the level break point canot be used to to advance the character father along leveling but Must be spent on Ability or Character Upgrades.

My question is though as I have yet to play C&C is how to balance the expenditure of EP to purchase the New Abilities.

SavageRobby · Post by **SavageRobby** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:14 pm

Personally, I _hate_ the spending XP to buy skills mechanic. I'd rather just handwave it and give characters skills based on their class and history, and let them tell me when/how they are going to improve them or get new ones during downtime. Sure, its more arbitrary that way, but its more flexible and adaptive, too.

Based on someone else's idea, I'm thinking about giving each character a "Bonus Special" or some such name at each level, to spend on a skill, manuever, feat, ability, edge, whatever that the player defines and expresses (within reason, of course - no video game characters in my game). If its a new skill, they'd have access to it, they could improve an existing skill (make it go from background, which is just score + prime, to active, which is score + prime + level), or add/improve some cool ability. Much like the skills above, I'm going to start by handwaving most of it and seeing how it works out before codifying it any.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Wulfgarn wrote:
This may sound a bit foolish but what is BRP?

The BRP is the Basic Role Playing system developed by Chaosium some 25 years ago (or so). If Wotc can be credited with developing the 'd20' system, and West End Games for supporting a 'd6' system, then this would be *the* d100 system.

Seriously though, it's the system underlining their lines of games with the most popular being Call of Cthulhu

They are releasing a new book dedicated to it this fall:
http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=246

Here's another interesting link:
http://www.basicrps.com/

Moriarty the Red
_________________
"You face Death itself in the form of... 1d4 Tarrasques!"

Partner to Brave Halfling Publishing
http://www.arcanacreations.com

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:20 pm

Yeah, besides C&C, the only new RPG game I'm looking forward to is the CORE BRP book. I wish they would consider doing a hardback version of the game, but beggers can't be choosers, I suppose.

.........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

kaomera · Post by **kaomera** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:36 am

Omote wrote:
Yeah, besides C&C, the only new RPG game I'm looking forward to is the CORE BRP book. I wish they would consider doing a hardback version of the game, but beggers can't be choosers, I suppose.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a hardcover too, but given the choice I'd prefer perfect-bound. Now Chaosium could certainly might a better binding, but have you seen the new Mongoose versions of RQ and the EC games? This has got to be just about the worst binding, ever. It seems like nearly all of my non-big-name hardbacks have bad bindings the last seven years or so, and even some of the WW /WotC ones... My C&C books, of course, are a nice exception!
_________________
My heart is black, and my lips are cold

Cities on flame with rock and roll

Three thousand guitars they seem to cry

My ears will melt, and then my eyes

~ Blue yster Cult