Bard Hit Dice

raskal · Post by **raskal** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:24 pm

I am a little surprise that the Hit Dice of the Bard is D10. It's a typo or i have miss something ?

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:28 pm

Nope, not a typo. The C&C bard is based more off of a Norseman Skald than spell-using jack-of-all-trades.

R-
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:38 pm

You'll also notice they're much better fighters than rogues, and have no spellcasting abilities. So, the C&C bard is not the D&D variety, at all. Thank god for that.

Arioch · Post by **Arioch** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:17 pm

nope D10 is correct , a house assassin, weapons, and bard trainer wouldn't have less would he?

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raskal · Post by **raskal** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:33 pm

Thanks for your answers, but i am not convinced that it's a good option, specially when an assassin has only d6...

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:36 pm

An assassin is not meant to be a frontline fighter-type, either. Neither is a wizard, or a rogue, or an illusionist, or a druid for that matter. The bard has a d10 HD. If you do not like it, change it, but know this: the XP chart assumes the HD is d10... so, if you lower it, I suggest reducing the XP needed to compensate. How much depends on what you change the HD to.

Arioch · Post by **Arioch** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:47 pm

Yes because the assassin class is not a fighter, where as the bard is , if you are looking for some one who hide in shadows and pops out sand says surprise, then sure you would have less hit points, as opposed to a man to stands before the troops says a rousing speech to fire the blood then leads the charge saying follow me men, it would seem he would have more hit points YMMV feel free to change the class to what you feel works Have met some CK who actually wanted to raise it to a d12 to match what they saw in the class

ken

raskal wrote:
Thanks for your answers, but i am not convinced that it's a good option, specially when an assassin has only d6...

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Witterquick · Post by **Witterquick** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:44 pm

And as a CK watching a 1st level bard's player get increasingly frustrated with her character, let's give them all the help they can get.
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johns · Post by **johns** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:00 pm

And if you're using multi-classing, the bard is a much better choice for wizard spellcasting than fighter - not as much XP wasted on armor that you can't use, same hit points and (nearly the same) attack bonus as a fighter, and the bard's decipher script and legend lore work nicely with wizards.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:08 pm

Witterquick wrote:
And as a CK watching a 1st level bard's player get increasingly frustrated with her character, let's give them all the help they can get.

Just goes to show you never know, the Bard player in our "henchman" game loves their Bard and hates their Paladin.

Witterquick · Post by **Witterquick** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:39 am

Well, people fight better than her, can cast spells, and every time she uses her Legend Lore ability and comes up short, another player tries it without the level bonus and does better.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:49 am

So, its nothing to do with the class, and most likely to do with crappy rolls. Yeah, that happens. I've had a high level fighter with an 18 Strength and a magical weapon that couldn't hit anything with an AC above 17, and a 1st level wizard that could hit whatever he fought, simply because of dice rolls. Sometimes, I hate the randomness... and other times, I think its critical, especially in those dramatic moments when you need a natural 20 to succeed and, as if from the heavens, that's what you roll.

BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:23 am

HD d6

Uses the Cleric To Hit table (nobody should be relagated to the awful rogue table, not even rogues)

Can use any magic item if he makes a CHA check CL = to the level of the highest spell in the item (if there is no spell in the item, CK decides the CL)

Has the following rogue abilities:

Pick Pockets

Hear Noise

Climb Walls

Read Languages

Bardic Knowledge (INT) bard has a chance of knowing something about nearly anything that can be considered legendary.

Counter Song (CHA) a bard can counter the effects of attacks based on sound. If the bard spends his action for the round singing a countersong, and makes a CHA check against the source of the noise, the effect is canceled. Examples: harpy songs, verbal suggestions from enemy spells, banshee's wailing, etc. The sound's ill effects are canceled in a 30' radius of the bard.

Morale Song (CHA) a bard can sing during battle to help lift his allies spirits and make them fight harder. If the bard makes a CHA check, all allies within 30' gain +1 to hit, +1 to saves, +2 to saves vs. fear. This effect lasts 3 rounds after the bard stops singing. A singing bard can move and defend himself, but cannot make attacks or cast spells while singing.

Influence Reactions (CHA) by giving a speech, or performing a song, a bard can get the audience to like him better. The targets make a WIS save vs. the Bard's level +CHA bonus. If they fail, they react to him better than they otherwise would. Hostile targets become unfriendly, unfriendly becomes neutral, neutral becomes friendly, and friendly becomes devoted.

Weapons Allowed: same as C&C bard.

Armor Allowed: Same as C&C bard.

Spells: A bard can cast magical spells as a wizard of one third his level.

The XP chart remains unchanged.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:20 am

Witterquick wrote:
Well, people fight better than her, can cast spells, and every time she uses her Legend Lore ability and comes up short, another player tries it without the level bonus and does better.

Tell her to ask Combat Kyle the last time my now 2nd level Paladin has hit anything. Plus ask how often I've been rolling 1's on initiative. I feel her pain. However, I know it isn't the character, its the firckin frack dice bot!!

Nelzie · Post by **Nelzie** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:25 am

Witterquick wrote:
And as a CK watching a 1st level bard's player get increasingly frustrated with her character, let's give them all the help they can get.

Suggest some judicious use of the SIEGE Engine to this character.

I am assuming either DEX or STR is a Prime. (I don't have my book with me at the office.)

The Bard could use her Primes to attempt to trip up, barrel over or otherwise cause an opponent to hit the dirt and have to attempt to stand next round. Pulling off one of those moves will provide a nice bonus to hit for the Bard against that foe the next round.

Fighting isn't always about swinging ones weapon.
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BASH MAN · Post by **BASH MAN** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:57 pm

You know, in C&C half elf is the best race for bards. You get a +2 bonus to all CHA checks, and you can choose to get an additional +2 if you have human lineage. As a bard, CHA is prime anyway, so with an 18 CHA, you have a +7 +Level to all CHA checks! Pretty sweet! Legend lore probably won't fail in that circumstance.
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Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:49 pm

The Bard in C&C is a Warrior Poet...yeah for that!!
I never liked the 3e Bard concept. Well, actually, I liked the class, just didn't fit my idea of a "Bard". The C&C one does!

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:25 pm

I would do this for the bard

d6 HD

But, I would also put in a 'sleight of hand' array of abilties, give a few spell like abilties, healing, charm, weather influence and at higher levels shape change, and the like.

The logic being, bards are the loremasters of the druids in my campaign, so my emphasis is a fair bit different.
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phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:51 pm

Here's an idea I may implement to make bard's more appealing.

Depending on how you view magic in your campaign, you could give the bard a "CounterSong" not just against "Sonic" magic, but against any magic using Verbal components. The bard can confound a spell caster trying to cast a spell. So now you have a warrior character that can make more use of his Charisma in combat, and you have one of the only warriors that can resist or cause to fail; magic - something no other warrior type can (though the Paladin does have some divine help).

I'll work out the details in a bit.

johns · Post by **johns** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:51 pm

Like he could yell "Hey caster caster caster .... sa-wing caster" while the spellcaster is trying to do his stuff.

phadeout · Post by **phadeout** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:44 pm

johns wrote:
Like he could yell "Hey caster caster caster .... sa-wing caster" while the spellcaster is trying to do his stuff.

LMFAO.... I have to write this down in my house rule quotes....

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Bard Hit Dice

Bard Hit Dice

Here is the "Singing Bard" you know and want