In the Keeper Advice Forum LordSeurek posted the following:
LordSeurek wrote:
Based on the cost route, someone wanna explain the specifics behind applying the table given on 89 of the M&T? I wanna create a haste bow. Functioning once per and one at 3 times a day.
Also, how do I know the difference between a lesser and greater single ability. Is it based on spell level, if so what is the cutoff between the two?
Thanks, L.S.
As I'm not a mod, I wasn't able to post, so I figured I'd give it a show answering here....
LordSeurek,
I just went through something similar. (See the start of this thread)
But to answer your situation specifically, here is my take on your Bow of Haste
1. You need to be an wizard or illusionist with Haste Spell at least 9th Level. (or hire one)
2. Then youll need to construct a laboratory costing based on 1,000 gp per level cumulative. So if youre only casting a 1st level spell, then its 1,000 gp. If your casting 2nd level, then its 3,000 gp (1st level: 1000 gp + 2nd level: 2,000 = 3,000 gp). In your case Haste Spell is 3rd level so it would be 6,000 gp.
3. Next youll have to determine the initial cost of the item, likely an expert weapon to start with so the Table 3.1 Expert Weapon (M&T, page 95) says its the Castle Keepers choice. Which Ill cover more under Components below, but for starters a Long Bow in the PHB has a cost of 75 gp.
4. Once youve got that sorted out, youll need to decide what you want to make. In your case you said you wanted to make 2 bows, one that can cast Haste 1 x a day and one that can caste Haste 3 x a day. For all that - you need to look at the table on page 89. Ive included that table here with my own interpretation of each Effects/Base Prices.
CALCULATING MAGIC ITEM GOLD PIECE VALUES
Effect 1..... Base Price
Enhancement bonus (each plus)..... Bonus squared x 1,000gp
This basically is what it says. If you want a weapon or item to be +1 then the cost would be 1squared (1x1) x 1,000 = 1,000. If you wanted a weapon to be +2 then the cost for this part would be 2 squared (or 2x2) x 1,000 = 4,000. If you wanted a +3 weapon, then your looking at 3 squared (or 3 x 3) x 1,000 = 9,000.
Bonus spell..... Spell level squared x 1,000 gp
I read this is as any spell that you want to add to a magic item is considered a bonus spell. So if you wanted a wand that used 'Create Food and Water' (a 3rd Level Cleric Spell) then the cost for having this spell imbued on the item would be 3 squared (or 3 x 3) x 1,000 = 9,000 gp. In the case of your Bow of Haste ( you want to use the 'Haste' spell (a 3rd Level Wizard Spell) the cost is the same: 3 squared (or 3 x3) x 1,000 gp = 9,000 gp
Resistance bonus ..... Bonus squared x 1,000 gp
For this I turn to the Ring of Energy Resistance (M&T, page 116). Here it references that , Each time the wearer would normally take damage, subtract the rings resistance value from the damage dealt. It goes on to say 10 points is considered minor, 20 points is consider major and 30 is considered greater. That being said, as eventually youll need to deal with Lesser and Greater Abilities, as part of the process, I would just take 1-15 points as lesser and 16-30 as greater.
Save/Ability bonus (limited)..... Bonus squared x 250 gp
This is basically giving one a bonus to a particular Ability or saving throw enhancing their chances at success. Say a +3 to save against Charm effects would be 3 squared (or 3 x3) x 250 = 2,250 gp. In the case of Ability, say the Barbarians Primal Fury which is +2 to damage dice rolls and +2 to Wisdom saving throws there are some challenges. As it also incurs a -2 to AC and a -2 to Intelligence checks. This brings out a point about cursed items and negatives. There is no discussion about creating them so I interpret that each ( + ) applies also to each ( -). So in the case of this Primal Fury ability would add up to 8 (both pluses and minus) total squared (or 8 x 8) x 250 gp = 16,000 gp
Single Lesser Ability..... Base 4,500 gp
Single Greater Ability..... Base 8,500 gp
Ive grouped these two together as my take on all this is that you need to start with a Greater or Lesser Ability. A few ideas have been thrown about for that. I just do a word search of the M&T book and see if any monster comes up with the ability Im looking for. A couple of good suggestions offered by some folks here on here on the forums are
1. To use the Monster Experience Point chart on 6, they break things down into Special 1, Special 2 and Special 3 corresponding to levels 1-3, 4-7, 8+ respectively. I would just say Level 5 as the separation point between Lesser and Greater,
2. Use the Sentient Item Great Powers (91) and the Sentient Item Lesser Powers (pg 90) as a guide.
3. Then of course is what I talked about in the resistance bonus as there is minor, major and greater at 1-10, 11-20, 21-30 points respectively, I would just take the 1-15 as Lesser and 16-30 as greater.
Attribute bonus..... Bonus squared x 1000 gp
This is treated just like an enhancement bonus or a resistance bonus. So a +2 dexterity added to a ring would be 2 squared (or 2 x 2) x 1,000 gp = 4,000
Spell resistance..... 10,000 gp per point
If you want Spell Resistance, like that of a Banshees which is 10, then youll need to spend: (10 points x 10,000 gp) = 100,000 gp
Single use, spell completion..... Spell level x caster level x 25 gp
Obviously a one shot item. But what is spell completion? The only place I found anything on spell completion was in the spell 'Trap Soul' in the PHB on page 101. It says the following:
Spell Completion: The spell can be completed by speaking its final word as if the caster were casting a regular spell at the subject. This allows SR (if any) and an intelligence save to avoid the effect. If the creatures true name is spoken as well, any SR is ignored but the save CL increases by 2. If the save or SR is successful, the gem shatters.
Not really sure what this would be, but my take would be something similar to a scroll. Maybe a temporary effect. I'll use my own made up example:
Richards Pamphlet of Amazing Growth: Richard Smallton, a rather savey and zany halfling wizard came up with the idea of appealing to the sadness some Halflings feel at their stature. He printed several pamphlets with his exercise and stretching ideas to increase size at 50 to 100 gp a piece. Most of them were just junk, but a few he had imbued with the 'Alter Size' spell - a first level wizard spell, As he was 9th level the duration would last for 9 turns. So cost for one of the magic pamphlets was 1 x 9 x 25 gp= 225 gp. Add that to the 1,000 gp for his workshop. And the 1,000 gp for his the 1st Level Spell his total cost was 2,225 gp. He printed about 500 of the fake pamphlets, and made about 12 of them actually magically imbued. SInce he already ahd the workshop done, the cost was only 1,225 for each additional pamphlet. With the magic pamphlets, if one reads through to the end like a tome, the spell is casts and the reader is temporarily enlarged for 9 turns. The occassional increase in size bolstered the rumor and Richard made quite a bit of money on the pamphlets.
Single use, use-activated..... Spell level x caster level x 50 gp
This too is a one shot item, but requires you do something. I would think something like Cheese of Invisibility. Since 'Invisibility' is a Level 2 Wizard Spell. The cost would be 2 (for 2nd Level spell) x 9 (since the Wizard needs to be at least 9th Level) x 250 = 4,500 gp
Another example would be something like Dust of Disappearance which has a cost of 8,500 gps
50 charges, spell trigger..... Spell level x caster level x 250 gp
I read this as something like a wand or other item you want charges with. So if you wanted a Wand of Animate the Dead ( a 3rd Level Cleric spell) youd have to be a 12 level Cleric to create it so the cost would be for this imbued characteristic of 50 charges: 3 x 12 x 250 = 27,000 gp.
Spell Trigger though was another thing I couldn't really find anything on. Sure it's used throughout the PHB, but nothing specific is said about it. The way I read this section though is that it is 50 charges AND/OR Spell Trigger. It probably should have had it's own entry but that's for the Trolls to decide. So anyway, defining trigger adding 'something' that will cause the spell to cast when the trigger is 'tripped'. That 'something' may be a word, an action, a smell, something approaching a radius, etc. Really up to the player and CK. That's my take on it anyway, though in terms of just saying a word, that is different from the next one 'Command Word.'
Command word..... Spell level x caster level x 750 gp
You want a command word to activate the ability and make it come forth. Say you want to have the item cast the spell Protection from Law (1st level wizard spell ) cast as a 4th Level Wizard which gives you 12 rounds of protection. The cost would be 1 (for 1st Level Spell) x 4 (for 4th Level Wizard) x 750 gp = 3,000 gp.
Though this brings up another good point. Since you need to be a 9th level wizard to cast it, well everything is going to be at least a multiple of 9. So shouldn't it really be in the above case 1 (for 1st level spell) x 9 (for 9th level wizard) x 750 gp = 6,750 gp? I suppose a 9th level wizard could just get a 4th level wizard to cast it for her, but you'll still end up having to pay the wizard. But hey maybe a 9th level wizard would have some apprentice under them anyway so it's a freebee - other than the room and board. Cheaper for everyone all around anyway.
Use-activated..... Spell level x caster level x 1,000 gp
This would be for items that whenever you used it, the spell was in action. So creating a Sword of Undead Detection ( Detect Undead being a 1st level Cleric spell) would have to be created by a 12th Level cleric to the starting cost for this characteristic would be 1 x 12 x 1,000 = 12,000 gp
Charges per day..... Divide by (5 charges per day)
The base price should actually say ......Divide by (5 divided by Charges per day). (See the in this thread above for explantion) That being said, an example is in order, so if an item like a bow with the ability to cast the spell Haste 3 x a day, this is what you would need.
The cost is about 6,075 gp for the Bow & Laboratory, Add in the Haste Spell which 9,000 gp. Since Haste 3 x a day is a Greater Power add 8,500 gp. Total here is 23,575 gp. I would then divide the take 23,575 gp divided by (5 divided by 3 charge a day = 1.6) = 14,734 gp. Then I add the 14,734 gp to 23,575 gp for a total of 38,309 gp.
No space limitation..... Multiply entire cost and time by 2
As there is a Limit on Magic Items Worn shown in the M&T, having an item that doesnt take up one of these slots is the reason for incurring the extra cost. So while one should only be able to wear 1 amulet or brooch, one could take say an Amulet of Health +1 which normally costs 4,000 gp, but adding the No Space Limitation ability the cost of 4,000 gp would double or 4,000 gp x 2 = 8,000 gp.
Component..... Extra Cost
This is completely subjective (really all these rules are) to the CK, and as has been pointed out, a great opportunity for questing and adventuring. If someone in my campaign wanted to create this Bow of Haste (3 x a day), I would likely require it to be made of Darkwood (see M&T), which requires the players finding a tree or someone with some. then having it be crafted by the hands of a distinguished elf - which would be another adventure. All of this done before ever even getting to the point of adding the Haste Spell or creating a laboratory. Though likely the laboratory would be created while the PCs were off adventuring. The wow string would have to be made from the tendons of an ancient dragon. Buying those items may or may not be possible but shouldnt be easy. Further after it was created and now in use by the PCs, I would rule that it might enrage any dragon you encounter when it senses that the string is made of dragon tendons. But I wouldn't tell the PCs that, nor should you
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Ok, now that Ive said all that about the rules. Let also add this... in the Society Chat last Friday, we talked about this whole topic of magic item creation a little and really it just came down to the idea that this is Castles & Crusades. You dont have to get wrapped around the axle with crunch. Just go with what feels right. So a quick look at the Magic Items in M&T shows this:
Quote:
Boots of Speed: The wearer of these boots may move as if a haste spell was cast upon him for up to 30 rounds each day. The duration of the effect does not need to take place over consecutive rounds. Cost is 12,000 gp. (M&T, page 105)
Ok, cool. Your Bow of Haste which can cast the 'Haste' spell 3 x a day at will has a cost of 12,000 gps. Each time the user casts 'Haste' they can use the the ability for up to 10 rounds (which is equal to the 30 rounds used in Boots of Speed). Done.
My math could be off or I might be reading something wrong, so if anyone is interested in commenting on the Bow of Haste that is almost 50,000 gp (with no command word or use activated in, which I think there should be, but the cost was already too excessive) let me know.
Also, I would be interested in hearing the Trolls take on cursed items and their creation - are the ( - ) additions used like the ( + )'s or something different? Also I would like to hear their take on Spell Completion, Spell Trigger and Use Activated vs. Single Use Activated.
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