Traveller wrote:
Cheep, I wasn't holding you responsible for Monsters & Treasure, and I thought I made that apparent. If not, I apologize for my lack of clarity in my response.
That said, I have to disagree that magic item EV is something that should be house ruled. If the item has mass and bulk, it has an EV. Magic item EV can be handled with "ad hoc encumbrance" and the "very light" modifier, but it shouldn't have to be. Those numbers should be present in the magic item tables. The fact that you weren't consulted on a game mechanic that by its very nature needs to apply to everything in Monsters & Treasure is...simply astonishing.
The inconsistent application of what are supposed to be core rules within the books is something that is going to frustrate Joe Average out there, the guy who doesn't read these boards (or other RPG boards for that matter) and wants a game that is simple to play. We who frequent these boards are but 1% of the whole, and this game (as much as we like it or love it) cannot be geared strictly for us one-percenters.
There are two things that need to be done with the rule system:
1. The PHB and M&T need to be treated as one book for purposes of picking through the system and ensuring that inconsistencies are eradicated. Once this is completed, the system should be relaunched, and the changes documented. Which leads to point number 2.
2. There needs to be a SRD. Saying "the books are the SRD" is not acceptable. The lack of a SRD I believe discourages others from writing for the system. Whether this is a good idea or bad idea is up in the air, but the Castles & Crusades system still needs a SRD.
No Travler!!! It cannot be written any clearer! It is PERFECT.
A few points before I address Travelers legit comments.
1) I have seen no slow down in sales of the PH (well except in May) beyond that we are heading toward a 5th printing of the book. Sales have been good, very good (I'm pretty sure we are over the 10,000 rules sets sold so far). So the slow down we've seen on the boards is not reflected in the success of the game. Any rules inconsistencies have not negatively impacted the game, unless of course there would have been X number more of sales.
2) The boards have been slowing down for about 3 months. It has little to do with the rules in C&C. I suspect it has more to do with the use of Facebook, Twitter and the Trolls Tusk. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not really sure.
3) Peter is no longer active on these boards at my request. He has 42 million art projects to do, not least of which is interior for CKG and the battle tiles for Fields. Not to mention bringing color to the art in the PH...and of course just wrapping on the M&T of Aihrde.
So those small items out of the way, on to business.
I like the encumbrance system that Josh designed for C&C. I always have. I don't really understand the complaints about it, but that is perhaps reflective of my insider track for the whole thing. I will categorically say that the examples provided in encumbrance are a blistering mix of too many numbers.
But my opinions on whether it works or not are only marginally relevant. Its like the sleep spell. I thought it was written confusingly, so did Todd and so did Mark. We all three had problems with it. We were talking to Mac about it and he got a little defensive and said it makes perfect sense, you just reading it wrong. I got a good laugh out of that, and told Mac that if 3 out of 4 people reading your work are confused, it needs addressing.
Encumbrance has this issue. It is the single most commonly mentioned thing on these boards as being broken, or not broken rather, but in need of a second look....I should say that "core" book is the most mentioned thing on these threads and encumbrance the 2nd. hahaha
So it does need a second look. I might understand it, like Mac the sleep spell, but if a significant number of other people don't, then it needs a retooling.
But Trav's thoughts on the M&T/encumbrance are interesting and enter into an area where we, the publishers, not the gamers, have to tread with extreme care. There is a serious design philosophy that goes into C&C. This goes beyond the simple mechanics of the game, and spans into our (TLG's) being interested in developing and or marketing of the game. We decided in the beginning that the customers have to be, to some extent, self-reliant. I know to you that this does not seem that important, but to me and Mac, Davis and Todd it really does, it plays into the long grueling experience we had selling Dungeons and Dragons, d20; this is an experience none of us have any interest in repeating. It might seem that such a response is counter-intuitive to an interactive fan-base..."make it up"...but its is a serious design philosophy of the game and one that I firmly believe plays into the rather significant number of sales the C&C PH has had, especially compared to other genre games. (ask me about Mac's opinion of the CKG some time).
So with that as our backdrop. What's to be done about the M&T not having an encumbrance system combined with the treasures? This is a valid point as encumbrance is built upon weight and cross referencing the value from PH to M&T won't completely work. That Josh is correct that the rules aren't really inconsistent as the ad hoc encumbrance will work, just don't factor in weight...of course you have to know not to factor in weight.
Correct me if I'm missing some germ point here, as I said earlier, the encumbrance system seems to work for me.
Now, will I give an encumbrance value to each magic item? Probably not. What will probably happen is that I'll insert a short paragraph referring CKs to the ad hoc system and laying the onus upon them to figure up the encumbrance of a magic items as in my experience this is seriously house-ruled...Todd for instance gives all magic items a free pass on encumbrance.
I'm glad this topic has come up now though, and Trav, I appreciate the points you've made mainly because I finished the equipment chapter a few weeks ago and left a giant blank spot for encumbrance as I've not decided what to say or not to say...now I'll definitely address the magic items encumbrance mess.
Steve
ps: I'm not sure what value an SRD will have aside from helping others write for the system, a valid tool no doubt, but I can promise you it will not be done until the CKG is finished, printed, and of my desk.
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