Troll Lord Games

I was wondering if I could get comments on a house rule I am thinking of using for my next campaign.

Basically, I am doing away with all the classes and using a Hero class and Magic User Class. I might allow non humans but right now I am not sure what I want them to be like in the game.

The basic idea is that all people can hide, turn undead (aka vampire movies), Back Stab, etc.

Therefore, there is no skill like abilities, but I made a small list of special abilities to differentiate heroes.

Abilities slightly redefined

STR, CON-No change

DEX-can use DEX checks to move silently, hide etc

INT-is knowledge cunning and know how. All characters can make INT checks to open locks, disarm traps, appraise objects, identify monsters etc

WIS-is instincts and awareness used for tracking, spotting things, survival, it is not connected to the divine.

CHR-will power, confidence, ability to influence. All characters can make Turn Undead, Riding, barter etc.

All heroes add their level to all rolls. If the CK thinks it is not related to their background character concept then they simple dont roll.

PRIME ATTRIBUTE: Pick Three

ALIGNMENT: Any

HIT DICE: d8

WEAPONS: Simple, Light, Missile, and Long

Light Weapons = one handed weapons

Simple Weapons = dagger, dart, staff, club

Missile = bows, x-bows, slings

Long = spears and pole arms

Heavy = 1.5 handed weapons and other Knightly weapons

Great Weapons= 2h weapons.

ARMOR: Light and medium

Level HD BtH Skills &

Saves Ability

1 D8 +1 +1 3 Prime Powers

2 D8 +2 +2 Cleave

3 D8 +3 +3 Weapon Mastery

4 D8 +4 +4 Inspire or Demoralize

5 D8 +5 +5

6 D8 +6 +6

7 D8 +7 +7 Weapon Mastery

8 D8 +8 +8 Inspire & Demoralize

9 D8 +9 +9 Stronghold

10 D8 +10 +10 2nd attack

11 D8 +11 +11

12 D8 +12 +12

Hero Abilities

All heroes gain these abilities as they gain levels

Cleave-As per 3rd edition May cleave up to level times. They may only use this ability with melee weapons.

Weapon Mastery: Heroes developed an special connection with a specific weapon over their careers. At 3rd level they may select a specific weapon and gain +1 to hit and +2 Combat maneuvers (parry (bonus applies to AC bonus), block, disarm, Trip) while using the weapon, at seventh level he may choose a second weapon or gain +2 damage. A weapon expert of a missile weapon does not gain a +2 to combat maneuvers but it allows them to make attacks to disarm, trip. They can even block and parry other missile by shooting them out of the air.

Inspire and Demoralize: A hero presence encourages allies and henchmen. While present, allies gain +1 to morale checks. Alternative he chooses to penalize enemies morale by -1. At 8th level he does both simultaneously. Mike maybe this should be people inconstant with the hero. Only the highest level hero ability is used.

Strong Hold: the hero may make a strong hold the exact nature is up to the CK and player but should be based on the characters background.

Prime Powers: Every hero can choose 3 powers from the list below. Most primes have only one ability but CHR and INT have multiple ones. A hero could neglect

Strength-Melee Bash: The hero is proficient with heavy and great weapon. They also gain +1 to damage with a -1 to hit up to their level.

Wisdom- Hunter: Very much like Rangers favored enemy

Dexterity-Nimble: The Hero can rely upon agility and deftness in order to avoid engaging in toe-to-toe combat with opponents. So long as he is unencumbered or carrying, a light load he gains +2 to his armor class.

Constitution Tough: The hero is used to marching and operating Use Heavy armor and gain +1 HP/LV.

Charisma- Aura The hero can emanate one of the following aura these

Aura of Bravery (Prerequisite: None): Much like Knights inspire

Aura of Divinity (Prerequisite: Good): Much like paladins protection from evil

Aura Animal Empathy (Prerequisite: Good) Character has an animal companion. It is a 2HD creature that gains 1 HD every 2 levels. (Higher hit dice animals are possible but are considered injured until the hero has sufficient level so that the animal has all his hit dice. During this period, the animal does normal damage and moves rates.) They may only have one companion at time if the companion dies the hero acts at -2 to all rolls for the remainder of the session. Of the animal dies or is dismissed the hero can enter the wilderness and in one week fine a new ally. This creature is gains 1 HD up to the creatures maximum HD (Hero level x +2). Natural animals also finding the Hero no threatening and will not attack the hero unprovoked. Depending on the circumstances they may even approach or help the hero.

Aura of Encouragement (Prerequisite: None): Much like bards exalt

Intelligence-Expert choose one of the following

Martial Arts: The character has studied the ways of unarmed combat. He does 1d6 damage with unarmed attacks and gains +2 to grappling, overbearing, disarm, and trip attacks.

Death Attack: Much like assassin Death attack

Intuition: answer 1 yes or no question per level truthfully. EX: Do red dragons breathe fire? CK: Yes.

I suppose it could work, maybe suit a swords and wizardry conan and hyboria type campaign.

Not sure about all classes turning undead, I might have it that undead were only turnable if you were lucky enough to discover the secret method or item or whatever that turned each type, force some investigation or roleplaying into the situation first (who would know such dread secrets? A few rival adventurers- can they be trusted. Or folks with an unhealthy interest in necromantic secrets?)

What jumps out at me most is that it would be a great way to introduce young kids to the C&C game, quick character generation and less choices, but still giving them some.

1d6 HD for spellcasters and 2d6 for heroes?

Mostly what makes a campaign for me is the background, so rules are ok but may seem great when linked with whatever campaign background you have, the story of the single spellcasting class etc.

Interested to see your take on demi-humans (if they fit at all) with these rules- follow OD&D archetypes or something different? The demi-human PHB racial abilities would seem to make them a balanced enough class alone alongside the others, depending on weapon and armour and possible spell selection (make elves the ftr/mages by giving them approx half the spell progression of spellcasters?)

zombiehands wrote:
I was wondering if I could get comments on a house rule I am thinking of using for my next campaign.

I am dubious about this houserule. I suggest to ask the players if they prefer it over normal C&C.
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I take it your trying to do Iron Heroes?
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Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/

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I think this could work.

Did you mean with the Wizard class as the other class? I think Wizard RAW might be underpowered next to this Hero.

I like the powers idea.

Relaxo wrote:
I think this could work.

Did you mean with the Wizard class as the other class? I think Wizard RAW might be underpowered next to this Hero.

I like the powers idea.

Yes the wizard is the other class. But it not the standard C&C wizard. My brother is going to trading off with me as CK and he is working on it. He divinding spells into three classes White, Black, and Grey/Green. Although a wizard can cast spells from any class. Mundane Items can interfer with his concentration. Carrying a sword or spear will prevent the use of White magic as it is a symbol of offense and White magic is defensive. Carrying or wearing Metal will prevent a caster from using Green/Gray magic as it is Fairy magic (illsuion and nature spells) the fairy are vunerable to iron. Wearing armor will prevent the use of Black magic (offensive magic) since it is symbolic of defense. I saw a rough draft today and will post it tonight.

Treebore wrote:
I take it your trying to do Iron Heroes?

I don't think so, as far as I understand Iron heroes.

I recall that it is more sword and sorcery so to that exent.

But I only read through quickly and I thought some of the classes were very 4e D&D. I am trying to go in the opposite direction.

Zebulon wrote:
I am dubious about this houserule. I suggest to ask the players if they prefer it over normal C&C.

Regualr C&C is a great game, but it does not have the feel that I am going for in the campaign. I don't like Clerics for one thing. Nor do I like that everything is so specialized. basically me and my brother are going to co CK(DM) and we starting think how poorly a class based system does heroes like Conan, or Robin hood. Rather than add classes we wanted to eliminate them. I guess it comes from playing a lot of GURPS in the 90's.

So regular C&C is kind of off the table for me.

zarathustra wrote:
I suppose it could work, maybe suit a swords and wizardry conan and hyboria type campaign.

Not sure about all classes turning undead, I might have it that undead were only turnable if you were lucky enough to discover the secret method or item or whatever that turned each type, force some investigation or roleplaying into the situation first (who would know such dread secrets? A few rival adventurers- can they be trusted. Or folks with an unhealthy interest in necromantic secrets?)

What jumps out at me most is that it would be a great way to introduce young kids to the C&C game, quick character generation and less choices, but still giving them some.

1d6 HD for spellcasters and 2d6 for heroes?

Mostly what makes a campaign for me is the background, so rules are ok but may seem great when linked with whatever campaign background you have, the story of the single spellcasting class etc.

Interested to see your take on demi-humans (if they fit at all) with these rules- follow OD&D archetypes or something different? The demi-human PHB racial abilities would seem to make them a balanced enough class alone alongside the others, depending on weapon and armour and possible spell selection (make elves the ftr/mages by giving them approx half the spell progression of spellcasters?)

Thanks for the feed back.

I like your idea for Turning undead. To me though turning undead is grabing a cross and shouting "begone creature of the night" like old B movies. More of a self confidence and belief thing than a secrete ritual.

Also we are playing with alot of new to gaming and causal gammers so it was my intent to make it easy.

As far as the D6 and 2D6 that is kind of what I was thinking (D4 and D8)

As far as the background I am thinking it is a human centric begining point very mideval more than magical, but it is surounded by magic kingdoms that are kept at bay by the church. The church is non magical but holy symbols and invoking god's name can keep monsters and fairies at bay.

The PCs are hired by the adventurers guild to go to the other kingdoms and well take their stuff. In premtive manuvering.

Inintally I am leaning towards no non human PCs. My brother is going to co CK and he is working on them. We are thinking like BD&D though each will be a class. But races are more myth and ledgend basd than D&D. Elves (and maybe dwarves) kidnap children are afraid of Iron (not dwarves) and are material spirits without souls. The Seelie and Unseelie courts are reachable places in labryinths underground or in the "deep" woods. I am thinking their abilities will be similar to BD&D. But we are still hammering out our differnences.

This is a pretty cool idea. I like that you're just going to have heroes and wizards as classes.

I wonder though are you going to lump the cleric and druid spells in with the wizard spells or remove them alltogether?

If I were doing this for just a couple of players three primes is good but if you're going to have a large group i might consider bumping primes down to just two instead of three. Just my opinion though.

Nal

I think we have 4 players right now so right in the middle. I can see that there is going to be doubling up on primes, but this group also played 4e with and everyone was a ranger or rogue.

Right now it looks like we are keeping spells from every list just not all the spells in the lists. White magic is mostly Cleric spells, Black magic is mostly wizards spells, and green is illusionist and druid

Colors of Magic -- I assume that you've seen http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... magic.html ? (has a spell list already divided into the three colors)

And other house rules that might provide some ideas
http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... index.html

jaguar451 wrote:
Colors of Magic -- I assume that you've seen http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... magic.html ? (has a spell list already divided into the three colors)

And other house rules that might provide some ideas
http://akraticwizardry.blogspot.com/200 ... index.html

Thanks for the link! I did see it before but could never find it again. Yeah he has some good Ideas, I was going to divide it more on opposites.

Protection vs Offense

Nature/Real vs Illusion/fantastic

But instead I combined the later 2 to make it Faireish since that is going to be a big theme. I always have seen fairies good with animals and illusions.

I toyed with fighting styles he used in the end I decided against them because they are too much like feats in a bad way (stacking, gaining every three levels etc)

But other concepts I using like everyone can backs stabb and from Red Box fantasy everyone can turn undead. RBF Idea of skill focuses combined with primes. But in the end I thought it might be more complex and require lists and such.