Gaining an ability point every so many levels

[rickyh]

Is th is built into C&C or something that would need to be house ruled

[Treebore]

I use a training rule. Given enough time, money, and levels, the characters can become perfect 18's across the board if they want.

[seskis281]

I personally might use a house rule that gave the option, but I think I'd make it one point every 5 levels with a cap at 18 (not counting racial bonuses).
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[Moorcrys]

It's not in the rules, though nothing prevents you from doing so yourself.

Since C&C isn't as stat-uber as 3E is, I might allow them to bump a prime stat every six or eight levels as opposed to four.

But truthfully, I'm more for introducing magical items: librams, tomes, and such, as well as rings with wishes or powerful NPCs bestowing favors that characters can discover and make use of to increase ability scores -- I think finding such things as treasure is more fulfilling to a questing character than simply bumping the scores at a certain level. You could do that as well, simply make such things available as treasure at certain times during your campaign when you feel as though they're ready for a bump.
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Moorcrys

[gideon_thorne]

I'd recomend about 1000 xp per 1 point put into an ability score.
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Peter Bradley

[Arioch]

You would have to house rule it,

ken
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[Combat_Kyle]

I put the 3E rule of every 4 levels an ability score is increased as a house rule in my game. The slower level progression in C&C tones its power level to fit the game very nicely. My first campaign group played for 15 months, they were 8th level, it took just over a year of playing to get 2 points to increase abilities.
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[Dragonhelm]

I'm of a mixed mind on it. On the one hand, I can see ability scores improving with training. On the other hand, that's what primes are for, and it becomes more math for the game.

serleran wrote:
That's a 3.X rule. C&C doesn't do it. Not recommended, either, from me. If you like it... go for it.

Why don't you recommend it, Serleran?
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[Omote]

I don't use this, but I house rule it. In my games I have a basic feat system and one of the feats you can select is +1 to an attribute score.

.....................................Omote

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[Omote]

I don't neccessarily think that is the case. First of all, it all depends on how your CK lets you come up with stats for your PC. If you go strictly BTB, then you roll one set of stats and assign. The chances that a PC will have good stats with a single roll of a attribute set is slim. There is just not going to be many 18s, but there will be many more 9-11s. I don;t think it's that great to play a PC with with no good stat, or a PC that is just joe-average... even if he IS a PC.

Let's say as a CK you use the ole' +1 attribute every 4 levels. In a typcial game of C&C you're probably not going to see more then 12th level anyway. In this case, why not give the +1 every four levels. In 20 levels of C&C play, there is going to be a lot of real time involved. I don't think it's a game killer at all.

..........................................Omote

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[moriarty777]

I agree that 3.x D&D is a bit too *uber-stat* happy and is generally designed that way all around. All you have to do is take a look at the ability modifiers between C&C and D&D 3.x

I also agree that, all depending how the CK allows for the rolling of the stats can also have a significant impact on the game.

What I have done in terms of character generation is this:

A players rolls 4d6 but drops the lowest die UNLESS it is a 1. This gives a stat range between 3 and 19 before racial mods. I really like the ability modifier chart in C&C and it makes sense considering the law of averages and all that. However, I do believe that the characters a player makes are heroes... and a bit more exceptional.

This allows for a character that doesn't have stats which are as low as they could be... (and low stats *still* happen) and gives the characters an *edge* as heroes over a commoner.

Because of this, I think I am less inclined to adopt 3.x's ability progression.

Moriarty the Red
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[Treebore]

Well, I like to believe that my stats have gone up and down over the course of my life. So I adopt the same idea for my games.

so during down times they can train. For every month they get an attempt to increase one stat by one point. They had to have dedicated the whole month to this training. The TN is the stat number they are increasing to. So if the stat was a 15 and they are trying to raise it to 16, so the TN is 16. For every successive month they train they gain a +1 to their next roll for every failure until they succeed. If their training is ever stopped or interupted for more than two days they have to start over from scratch.

The monetary cost is 150 gold per stat bonus of the stat they are trying to attain, per month of the training.

For an example, my players (my wife and kids) took a year off to dedicate to this training while the Druid learned to be a Runemark. They spent thousands of gold per character (something like 3 or 4,000 gold each), and the most successful rolls of any one of the characters got them 3 points of stat increases, but the others got at least 2 each, though.

Yes, I cap them at racial maximums. the closer they get ot 18 or 19 the less likely it is they will make the roll. I have had players do eight months worth of rolling and getting a +7 worth of bonuses built up before they finally rolled a 19 to increase their stat to an 18. The 19 was without any of their built up bonus by the way.
Plus, players over the 15 years I have been doing this, don't have any big problems with rolling low stats. They know they will have the chance to fix it in the course of the game.

Plus stat increasing magic is very powerful and rare in my campaigns. It is the only way they can ever exceed their racial maximums and become "super" powerful in their stats.

I can deal with stat increasing spells, and they make sense for making str enhancing items, like belts/girdles of giant Str. Plus it is no big deal since they have to wait until higher levels to be able to make them.

So I really don't worry/think about giving permanent stat increasing items until about 14th level. The magic items and stat increasing training keeps them happy in the mean time.

Now I haven't run a C&C game above 7th level yet, so I am basing my level assumptions on how things went in my 2E campaigns.

Anyways, that is how I have handled stats for about 15 years now.

Stat generation? I'm generous there too. Everyone wants to play a character with good stats. So I make sure they get them. This is a game about having fun, after all. There is little that sucks worse than playing a character with stats you don't like.

[Philotomy Jurament]

I like the approach the 1E DMG uses. It's based on character age, so it models the concept of changing stats over time, but the modifications are fairly minor and don't happen very often (there are only five age categories).

[Treebore]

I remember those. I also considered those as what will happen if you don't do anything to counteract it. As for INT and WIS, I believe life experiences do more to increase those than just simply aging.

Drawing on real life again, I am confident in saying that my INT and WIS went up a lot during the time I was in the Navy and completed my College degree. By the same token my physical stats went way up due to my weight lifting, running, and martial arts training, then plummeted precipitously when I became disabled.

So that is why I stick with my rules.

[moriarty777]

Here's a question... I have seen twice now within this thread the notion of racial maximums or limits?

To which are these refering to in C&C? I don't recall any racial limitations when it came to stats. I know that there are racial bonuses or penalties and I know that there used to be various maxiums and such in AD&D (both 1st and 2nd I believe).

Did I miss something... is this something tucked away in the PHB?

Thanks,

Moriarty the Red
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[moriarty777]

Ah... ok... that's fine and makes sense now.

Thanks!

Moriarty the Red
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[Treebore]

Yep. Thats it. Its what I have always called the stat limitations since OD&D. You can only go above racial max with the help of powerful magics. Until 3E came along anyways.