I want to radically re-define the way magic works in my C&C game, but want to hear any and all ideas on doing so from you.
Some stated goals:
1) magic for each race is different. I like "fire & forget" for humans, but want spellcasting to work differently for demihumans. For instance, perhaps elves use a spell point system whereas dwarves use ritual incantations. Maybe elves gain power from starlight or something?
2) I want each race to have very different types of spells. For instance, perhaps dwarves only use spells that involved artifice with metal or stone. Elves might use spells that manipulate nature, but don't create or destroy. Halflings could use spells that aid in harvest or protection.
ANY suggestions and ideas are appreciated. Shoot from the hip!
Help me make magic more interesting
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alcyone
- Greater Lore Drake
- Posts: 2727
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:00 am
- Location: The Court of the Crimson King
Palladium RPG did something like this, but I just remember hating it as a gamemaster, now not only did I have divine and arcane spells to keep straight, I had several systems with their own unique rules.
So, if I came up with such a system for C&C, I'd probably go more for cosmetic similarity and keep at least most of the mechanics the same behind the scenes.
One thing I saw recently that intrigued me; the Microlite20 system gives every class the same hit points, but spell casters spend hit points on spells. I don't know how to adapt that to a racial magic system.
I was working on a Fudge game where I wanted to do something similar with different systems of magic, and had a system of "elven folk magic", which were sort of cantrips all elves could have, they got invented initially with each elf character and that formed a pool of spells others could potentially learn as well.
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Sir Aergraith Aethelmar of Cyrswud, CaCS,OotF
So, if I came up with such a system for C&C, I'd probably go more for cosmetic similarity and keep at least most of the mechanics the same behind the scenes.
One thing I saw recently that intrigued me; the Microlite20 system gives every class the same hit points, but spell casters spend hit points on spells. I don't know how to adapt that to a racial magic system.
I was working on a Fudge game where I wanted to do something similar with different systems of magic, and had a system of "elven folk magic", which were sort of cantrips all elves could have, they got invented initially with each elf character and that formed a pool of spells others could potentially learn as well.
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Sir Aergraith Aethelmar of Cyrswud, CaCS,OotF
My C&C stuff: www.rpggrognard.com
You could use the 3E Sorcerer as one of your racial casters.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
You could also use my Runemark conversion for dwarves only:
RUNEMARKS:
Are a rune based wizard. Plus everything class related is based off of their Wisdom, not intelligence.
Why? Because rune magic is literally based on word fragments of the "Words of Creation". So rune magic, and the fragments of the words of power used, are the ultimate source of all powers, divine and arcane. So they are treated as Divine, but might be able to use arcane items. Arcane item use is explained later.
Advantages: You only need to have your rune in hand to cast the spell and be able to speak the word of power associated with that spell. So all spells are verbal and material only, with the only material being the spell specific rune stone.
So Runemarks can be tied up, but as long as they have the runestone in their hands, and can speak, they can cast the spell. If they do a successful SIEGE check CL=spell level +4 they can cast the spell by will alone. The runestone is still required to be in hand. So even gagged they can still cast a spell if the SIEGE check is successful. Wizards can do this, but to do it bound and gagged would be a CL=spell level +8 to do so.
Rune stones are made out of expensive materials, but are re-useable. Rune stones cost 25 GP for first level, 35 GP for second level, 50 GP for third level, and 100 GP for levels 4 to 6, then 50 GP per level for levels 7 to 9 (350 GP to 450 GP per spell), with certain price exceptions for spells like Wish, etc... Those costs will be double of what is in the PH, but the rune stone is not consumed.
Biggest drawback: Unlike a mage losing a spell book, if you lose your runestones you can't cast another spell until you make new rune stones for the spells you know/have memorized.
Plus Runemark's cannot use Wizard or Illusionist magic items easily. They must make a SIEGE check versus TN 12 + level the item is made at to use it successfully. If they fail the SIEGE check they can never use that particular item until later. If they succeed they can use that particular item, or item power, from then on. Scrolls can never be used in this manner. Potions can be freely used like any other class. Fail the SIEGE check and they can never use that particular item, or item power, until they make another level to get another SIEGE check to try and figure it out.
Rune magic items:
Runemarks cannot cast arcane or divine classed scrolls, nor do they make scrolls. Runesticks are made in place of scrolls, but for all intents and purposes works just like a scroll. Costs of a runestick are twice that of normal scrolls, but otherwise is the same in terms of time to make them.
They use rods, staves, and wands (very similiar looking to runesticks), but they are all rune based, so called Rune Rods, Rune Staves, and Rune Wands. They can also make potions, but the container is used to empower the fluid inside, so rune potion containers are typically bigger than normal potion vials because of this.
Runemark Skills: Runemarks are very good at engraving and carving, as well as identifying metals and gemstones, since they are so crucial to the basics of making runestones and rune items. All checks, when related to runecasting and making rune items, are WIS based. Otherwise it will be related to DEX, or whatever stat the CK considers relevant.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
RUNEMARKS:
Are a rune based wizard. Plus everything class related is based off of their Wisdom, not intelligence.
Why? Because rune magic is literally based on word fragments of the "Words of Creation". So rune magic, and the fragments of the words of power used, are the ultimate source of all powers, divine and arcane. So they are treated as Divine, but might be able to use arcane items. Arcane item use is explained later.
Advantages: You only need to have your rune in hand to cast the spell and be able to speak the word of power associated with that spell. So all spells are verbal and material only, with the only material being the spell specific rune stone.
So Runemarks can be tied up, but as long as they have the runestone in their hands, and can speak, they can cast the spell. If they do a successful SIEGE check CL=spell level +4 they can cast the spell by will alone. The runestone is still required to be in hand. So even gagged they can still cast a spell if the SIEGE check is successful. Wizards can do this, but to do it bound and gagged would be a CL=spell level +8 to do so.
Rune stones are made out of expensive materials, but are re-useable. Rune stones cost 25 GP for first level, 35 GP for second level, 50 GP for third level, and 100 GP for levels 4 to 6, then 50 GP per level for levels 7 to 9 (350 GP to 450 GP per spell), with certain price exceptions for spells like Wish, etc... Those costs will be double of what is in the PH, but the rune stone is not consumed.
Biggest drawback: Unlike a mage losing a spell book, if you lose your runestones you can't cast another spell until you make new rune stones for the spells you know/have memorized.
Plus Runemark's cannot use Wizard or Illusionist magic items easily. They must make a SIEGE check versus TN 12 + level the item is made at to use it successfully. If they fail the SIEGE check they can never use that particular item until later. If they succeed they can use that particular item, or item power, from then on. Scrolls can never be used in this manner. Potions can be freely used like any other class. Fail the SIEGE check and they can never use that particular item, or item power, until they make another level to get another SIEGE check to try and figure it out.
Rune magic items:
Runemarks cannot cast arcane or divine classed scrolls, nor do they make scrolls. Runesticks are made in place of scrolls, but for all intents and purposes works just like a scroll. Costs of a runestick are twice that of normal scrolls, but otherwise is the same in terms of time to make them.
They use rods, staves, and wands (very similiar looking to runesticks), but they are all rune based, so called Rune Rods, Rune Staves, and Rune Wands. They can also make potions, but the container is used to empower the fluid inside, so rune potion containers are typically bigger than normal potion vials because of this.
Runemark Skills: Runemarks are very good at engraving and carving, as well as identifying metals and gemstones, since they are so crucial to the basics of making runestones and rune items. All checks, when related to runecasting and making rune items, are WIS based. Otherwise it will be related to DEX, or whatever stat the CK considers relevant.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
You wanna make it more interesting?
Elves must be "moonclad" in order to cast.
Halfelves have a form of tantric magic.
And there is a matriarchal society that specializes in ritual sex magick one buys at the local temple.
Give dwarves huge phallic symbols as a focus.
Ohh...and gnomes can be familiars.
Might actually get me to play a caster then.
But added layers, schools, and specialties sounds like more layers of complexity.
Give me naked elves and phallus swinging dwarves any day over more rules.
What?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim
'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell
Elves must be "moonclad" in order to cast.
Halfelves have a form of tantric magic.
And there is a matriarchal society that specializes in ritual sex magick one buys at the local temple.
Give dwarves huge phallic symbols as a focus.
Ohh...and gnomes can be familiars.
Might actually get me to play a caster then.
But added layers, schools, and specialties sounds like more layers of complexity.
Give me naked elves and phallus swinging dwarves any day over more rules.
What?
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'Nosce te Ipsum' -Delphic Maxim
'Follow your bliss.' -Joseph Campbell
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Go0gleplex
- Greater Lore Drake
- Posts: 3723
- Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 7:00 am
- Location: Keizer, OR
There were a trio of books, "Master of the Five Magics", "Secret of the Sixth Magic", And "Riddle of the Seven Realms" by Lyndon Hardy.
There were five magics governed by the laws of magic, the sixth magic being that of the meta-mage who was able to change the laws governing each of the five magics.
Anyhow...the Five magics and their laws are here. You may find them useful in your endeavor. (good series of books by the way)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_the_Five_Magics
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
There were five magics governed by the laws of magic, the sixth magic being that of the meta-mage who was able to change the laws governing each of the five magics.
Anyhow...the Five magics and their laws are here. You may find them useful in your endeavor. (good series of books by the way)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_the_Five_Magics
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The obvious will always trip you up FAR more than the obscure.
Baron Grignak Hammerhand of the Pacifica Provinces-
High Warden of the Castles & Crusades Society
"Rolling dice and killing characters since September 1976."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
"Author of Wardogs! and Contributor to Iron Stars and Starmada-Admiralty ed."
"Certified crazy since 2009."
serleran wrote:
Somewhere, I think on my Google group, I had rules for tattoo magic.
I have it too. I am pretty sure I have nearly everything you have ever put up. Hopefully everything.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
How about elves using ley lines?
http://www.badaxegames.com/download/
Or using 3.5 psionics as a point buy magic system
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRa ... Spells.htm
Dig through the vast library of 3.x stuff, you find loads of alternate spell systems and classes to support it. Some free, some of PDF and some in the bargain bin.
http://www.badaxegames.com/download/
Or using 3.5 psionics as a point buy magic system
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRa ... Spells.htm
Dig through the vast library of 3.x stuff, you find loads of alternate spell systems and classes to support it. Some free, some of PDF and some in the bargain bin.
+1 on the Palladium Books stuff. They have a bunch of different source books with all kinds of different magic. Just look at the various Rifts source books for inspiration.
Maybe the Book of Magic from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay might break things down for you. IIRC they have Dwarves with Rune Magic, Elves have a different spin on it as do humans and of course Chaos, then there is the Skaven with their Warp stones, etc.
Maybe just base the Magic on elements. Dwarves the Children of stone - earth element. Elves the children of the Wind - Air Element. Halflings the children of the sea - Water Element. Humans are the Children of flame - fire elements. Just assign each spell and element.
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R is among the most menacing of sounds. Thats why they call it murder, not muckduck. DWIGHT SHRUTE, The Office
Maybe the Book of Magic from Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay might break things down for you. IIRC they have Dwarves with Rune Magic, Elves have a different spin on it as do humans and of course Chaos, then there is the Skaven with their Warp stones, etc.
Maybe just base the Magic on elements. Dwarves the Children of stone - earth element. Elves the children of the Wind - Air Element. Halflings the children of the sea - Water Element. Humans are the Children of flame - fire elements. Just assign each spell and element.
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R is among the most menacing of sounds. Thats why they call it murder, not muckduck. DWIGHT SHRUTE, The Office
Paladium Fantasy has a nice range of types of casters, but I don't remember any being race specific, but that would be easy to require in a homebrew setting.
My favorites were the Diabolist and Summoners.
RIFTS had a lot of stealable stuff too. ITs why even though I have not played either for about 10 years or more I don't get rid of it. Packed with coolness.
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The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
My favorites were the Diabolist and Summoners.
RIFTS had a lot of stealable stuff too. ITs why even though I have not played either for about 10 years or more I don't get rid of it. Packed with coolness.
_________________
The Ruby Lord, Earl of the Society
Next Con I am attending: http://www.neoncon.com/
My House Rules: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.