What gaming stuff are you reading?

TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:29 pm

Picked up few things over the last couple of weeks and have been giving them a look through

1. Dark Sun Campaign Guide

2. D&D 4e Dungeon Master Screen

3. Dragon Age RPG boxed set

4. Hackmaster Players Mat

5. Dork20 Game Master Screen

6. Marvel Superheroes RPG Module (don't have here in front of me but it's with the Fantastic Four)

7. Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide

8. The last two Kingmaker Modules

9. Final version of Athas.orgs Dark Sun 3.5 version, and a bunch of there other stuff in PDF.

Other stuff I've been reading through has been Dark Heresy in preparation for a game and I've also been playing Blood Bowl on the computer and have started to look at my minis and read through the Table Top rules which are very much the same.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:37 pm

Slumbering Tsar, Part 4.

~O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:56 pm

Eclipse Phase, Slumbering Tsar part 3 and 4. Also learning EPICrpg and L5R 4E more in depth, since I am playing in L5R and running EPIC. I start playing in Eclipse Phase this Friday.
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TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:58 pm

Hey, by the way, how is the Slumbering Tsar series?
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:01 pm

TheMetal1 wrote:
Hey, by the way, how is the Slumbering Tsar series?

Considering that it is written by a guy who has written several of the modules in the Pathfinder PF series? Much better than expected, and we are only on part 4, which is barely getting into Tsar itself.

So let me just say I already know I do not regret paying $125 for the subscription.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:34 pm

The Slumbering Tsar series is pretty friggin' amazing. It is old-school, and at the same time very tight in it's writing. Slumbeing Tsar is epic in every sense of the word, but remains close to the traditional style of party adventuring. It's a site-based series of adventures, where the GM has to do a little bit of prep work to get the party involved with many of the site adventures (i.e. it is very easy to miss a majority of the neat stuff when in the wilderness part of the Slumbeign Tsar series). Once through the wilderness section of this mega-module (800+ pages at Slumbering Tsar's end) the patry will end up exploring the fortress-like city of Tsar which plays out somewhat like a mega-duingeon (at least it seems so at this point). As of now, subscribers are up to part 4 or 12.

Even with only 33% of the Slumbeing Tsar series out, I'm thinking this is probably up there as one of my favorite RPG products of all time.

~O
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:11 am

Re-reading, Chainmail by Gygax & Perren.

Fantastic fun supplement, even if you were to never use the material in this booklet.

History buffs, D&D fans, Tolkien freaks and now Fields of Battle fans . . read it and enjoy.

Loads of great supplemental thoughts/ideas and helpful resolution information for Fields of Battle CKs.

This work is very impressive.

[I will probably use the jousting info/table for my knights in their cavalry battle rather than FoB, mostly to see and learn the Chainmail rules on this]

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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:02 pm

I'm planning on using this adventure to kick off my C&C Aventurien game, which hopefully will begin near Halloween. It's the first adventure in a four-part series, only three of which are currently available in pdf form.

The premise is pretty cool: a powerful, wisdom-seeking wizard accidentally frees the spirit of a dragon which has been imprisoned for thousands of years. The dragon hates not just humans, but all "two-legged creatures" in general. All elves, dwarves and humans deserve to perish, according to him.

The wizard insists that not all two-legged creatures are as foul as the dragon remembers, so they make a bet. The two agree to cooperatively select a group of adventurers to be used as pawns in a game. If the adventurers do what is right and unselfishly serve others without concern for their own wealth and safety, then the dragon won't destroy the world and he'll let the wizard go with the knowledge which he seeks.

Basically, across the span of four adventures the heroes have no idea that each separate story is connected. There are vague clues, but there is no upfront story arc for the players to lean upon.

The story itself is very well-written and there are tons of aids within the module for making things flow easier, including four possible alternate endings if'n the players go in a few possible alternate directions.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:15 pm

A link would be nice, especially if there is an english version.
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Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:58 pm

Treebore wrote:
A link would be nice, especially if there is an english version.

Alas, they are not available in English. I would volunteer to offer some pared-down translated notes, but I'm not sure how kosher that would be.

Sucks, though. The 4.1 version of DSA is super-duper crunchy, but they've managed to retain an old-school flavor with the game world. I have no idea what Aventurien was like in editions past, but the stuff I've seen keeps it somewhere between Greyhawk and the Old World of Warhammer, although much, much closer to Greyhawk.

In fact, it's probably just the German that makes me think of Warhammer.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:34 am

Yeah, I think it's sad that english versions of DSA never took off. And unfortunately, the english version sold so poorly that they'll never sell translated versions of the setting... 'CUS THAT'S WHAT I WANT!
~O
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:24 pm

I'm on a miniatures/wargame kick at the moment. Reading, referencing and re-reading various rules sets:
Swords & Spells
Battle System (1e)
Field of Glory
John Bobek's The Games of War
Hordes of the Things
Field of Glory has most of my attention, at the moment. Really cool system with a lot of emphasis on command/control and cohesion/morale. I'm hoping to field a Carthaginian army against some Romans this Thursday, at my LGS.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:38 am

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
I'm on a miniatures/wargame kick at the moment. Reading, referencing and re-reading various rules sets:
Swords & Spells
Battle System (1e)
Field of Glory
John Bobek's The Games of War
Hordes of the Things
Field of Glory has most of my attention, at the moment. Really cool system with a lot of emphasis on command/control and cohesion/morale. I'm hoping to field a Carthaginian army against some Romans this Thursday, at my LGS.

Hey Phil, very cool ~ I'm in the same zone . . but,

The Brotherhood has been alerted to your presence, but I assured them of your C&C alignment and you have my favor, for now!!
Just kidding my man!
Have you heard or seen Fields of Battle?

Tis a C&C version of Battlesystem or Chainmail mass combat . . but I'm sure you know that. If not, you might well be interested.

Anywho, I would love to hear your take on those systems that you mention above.

Best,

Rhu.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:02 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
Have you heard or seen Fields of Battle?

Yes, I read through the thread on it, here. I'm definitely interested, just overloaded with miniatures systems, at the moment. The price is definitely right! (Especially compared to Field of Glory -- man, you can drop some cash on that one, what with the Osprey rule book and army list books.)

I'm hoping you'll post some more details on the system, itself, and maybe some comparisons to other miniatures systems.

Quote:
Anywho, I would love to hear your take on those systems that you mention above.

Field of Glory

I'm mostly reading, at the moment, so keep that in mind. I've been playing the computer version of Field of Glory, which is similar, but not exactly the same as the full tabletop rules. I'm looking forward to my first real tabletop game of Field of Glory this Thursday. I'll try to take some pics and such. I've been posting about Field of Glory in this thread. Matthew also posted a review. And Grendelwulf has a whole series of blog posts on Field of Glory, including a review and articles translating the Greyhawk orders of battle that appeared in Dragon into FoG terms. (Those were originally in Swords & Spells terminology.)

In a nutshell, though, Field of Glory puts a strong emphasis on maneuver and cohesion (i.e. morale/command). You don't typically win by pure attrition, but by breaking the enemy's will to fight and routing them. It seems to have a larger scale than some of the other ancients minis rules that have been popular recently (e.g. De Bellis Antiquitatis and that family), and is a little more detailed and crunchy. You need more minis than with DBA. Obviously, all that mean it plays slower, too. While you could use FoG as part of your D&D campaign, I don't think that's its best role. I think most RPG campaign battles would tend to be smaller than the battles that FoG is most suited for, and so far there are no fantasy rules for FoG (although there is apparently work going on to fill that void). It seems like a damn good miniatures wargame, though.

Like most systems, FoG can handle multiple scales, but its sweet spot is 200-300 men represented per base. A base is typically multiple miniature figures (e.g. light foot is 2 figures per base, heavy foot is 4 figures per base). In 15mm scale, bases are 40mm wide. In 25/28mm scale, bases are 60mm wide. If you use figures smaller than 15mm (e.g. 6mm), the rules suggest basing them as if they were 15mm (that is, you'd use 40mm wide bases with more figures per base than you would for 15mm figures).

Bases are collected into battle groups which move and fight together, and can shift formation and such. Battle groups can also form battle lines, of course. An army typically consists of 8-15 battle groups with 2-12 bases, each. Commanders are based separately and have liberal movement rules, compared to regular units. They can be attached and detached to individual battle groups and can be used in the front line (in which case they increase the quality of the troops) or in their support/command-and-control role (in which case they help morale and cohesion).
Swords & Spells

I started a Swords & Spells thread, here.

In the past, I've always glossed over S&S as a miniatures game because its lack of combat dice rolling always turned me off. However, I've been giving it a second look because of my experience with FoG and because the problems of scale in Chainmail have started bothering me, the more that I think about them. Gary was well-aware of the scale problems in Chainmail: his whole introduction to S&S is directed at that.

I've been developing a new appreciation of Swords & Spells. I see what Gary was doing with it, and I think it has a lot going for it. Like FoG, it puts a great deal of importance on maneuver and morale, since combat is mostly handled with calculations and averages. Its combat tables are designed so that you can use either OD&D little brown book style hit dice and damage (i.e. all d6) or Greyhawk-style variable hit dice and damage (i.e., like AD&D or C&C). And its designed to "mix scales:" you can consistently handle a high level 1:1 scale figure fighting against 1:10 scale units without screwing up the math or handwaving it. Lastly, of course, it's designed to handle D&D fantasy elements, making it ideal for use with a D&D campaign.
Swords & Spells uses a 1:10 scale, but unlike FoG, the figure is the basic unit. (In FoG, the base is the basic unit, and the number of figures on that base isn't critical, usually only indicating whether its light/medium/heavy, etc.) Nevertheless, S&S figures are organized into rectangular "stands" that are similar to FoG's bases. S&S base sizes, and thus stand sizes, depend on the size and armament of the troop type. S&S is even crunchier and more detailed than FoG, in this respect.

Actually, thinking about it, S&S is definitely crunchier in many ways. For example, the combat tables include optional use of weapon vs. AC (all of it is pre-calculated, so it's not really any harder than using the basic table without weapon vs. AC). Despite its emphasis on maneuver and morale, it also has pretty granular tracking of attrition. The only place it's not as detailed is in rules governing movement and formations. It covers that, but FoG covers it in more detail and with more comprehensive rules.
Swords & Spells has a lot going for it and is on my short list for a D&D campaign mass combat system (as opposed to a wargame to just play on its own). I'm planning on playtesting it to see if it is too crunchy or not.
Hordes of the Things

This is a De Bellis Antiquitatis variant that is currently available for free. You'll also want to download pg. 23, which is missing from the main PDF.

DBA, and thus HOTT, is a "fast play" miniatures system. It is less crunchy and detailed than FoG or S&S. You can play with relatively few figures, and the rules seem pretty simple and easy to learn. However, it still has traditional miniature wargame features, so it doens't feel like a skirmish game (i.e. D&D Miniatures and the like). For example, you base your minis, much like FoG, et cetera. (In fact, the base widths are the same, although depth can vary -- but it's possible to use DBA armies with FoG, and probably vice versa.)

Out of the three I'm posting about, I'm least familiar with HOTT. I plan on running some of the same battles that I test with S&S with HOTT, to see how they compare. I'm expecting HOTT to be a smoother-playing system, but not as well integrated with D&D's magic and fantasy elements. So there'd be more hand-waving if using HOTT with a RPG campaign.

From what I read of Fields of Battle, it sounds like it is more like HOTT than like FoG (i.e. simpler, more fast-play, et cetera).

Your pics show a lot of individual figures. Does Fields of Battle have basing requirements at given scales? What is its "default scale" or sweet spot? How does it handle missiles (both ranges and rof) when changing scales? Is movement done per figure, or by group or formation, or both? How does it handle mixing the 1:1 scale (e.g. a single 10th level fighter) with unit scales?
Battlesystem and The Games of War

I haven't delved deeply enough into either of these to offer much comment (especially on Battlesystem). I've basically skimmed them. Games of War is pretty impressive, though. It's a whole collection of rules systems for various periods, and the author obviously has a lot of experience (including gaming with Gary and the other guys from up there). I really like the "do it yourself" tinkering vibe I get from the book. I imagine that aspect would appeal to a lot of C&C fans, too.

(I'm also keeping an eye on War & Battle, being developed by Matthew. He's aiming at a mass combat system that will work for larger and smaller scales and that will make sense with AD&D combat assumptions.)
Edits to add links and such
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:10 pm

John did a great job with that book! I think he's been wargaming since birth! He was part of the original Castle & Crusades group from the '60s/'70s, I do believe.

I had a chance to play a couple of games with him as referee at Lake Geneva Con a couple of years ago. I think the Gary Con time conflicts with his school schedule, but, hopefully he'll be able to make it this year. A really nice guy!
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:16 pm

Deogolf wrote:
John did a great job with that book! I think he's been wargaming since birth! He was part of the original Castle & Crusades group from the '60s/'70s, I do believe.

I had a chance to play a couple of games with him as referee at Lake Geneva Con a couple of years ago. I think the Gary Con time conflicts with his school schedule, but, hopefully he'll be able to make it this year. A really nice guy!

Yes, his book is excellent. Not only is it practical, offering rules for a lot of time periods and such, but it's so obviously a labor of love that I also find it inspirational. It makes you want to be part of the hobby.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:16 pm

For anyone interested, some pics (mostly blurry, but a few good ones in there) of the Field of Glory game I played last night can be found here. Sorry for the blurry ones. I'm afraid I'm not much of a photographer.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:36 pm

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
For anyone interested, some pics (mostly blurry, but a few good ones in there) of the Field of Glory game I played last night can be found here. Sorry for the blurry ones. I'm afraid I'm not much of a photographer.

Those are cool!! Thanks for the link!
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TheMetal1 · Post by **TheMetal1** » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:35 pm

Over the weekend I finished up reading through "Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition for Dummies", "The Dark Sun Campaign Guide" (4E). Also read through "The Mortality of Green" (C&C and Revised D20 Editions)

I have been playing Blood Bowl (Dark Elf Edition) on the Computer so pulled out my Blood Bowl books and have been reading them, along with the living rulebook. Even got the minis out for a game.

Just got in "The Dark Sun Creature Catalog" and "Tainted Lands". Spent a portion of last night reading through Tainted Lands, very interesting stuff in the there. I do see it as something as a hook to see if anyone in my C&C campaign will take the bait and head to the Lollygag Inn.
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Deogolf · Post by **Deogolf** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:31 pm

N1 - The Forest Oracle.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:32 pm

The freshly printed The Eamonvale Incursion by Necormancer Games (distributed by Frog God Games). Combine that with The Grey Citadel and yoy have yourself an awesome microsetting.

~O
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:35 pm

Omote wrote:
The freshly printed The Eamonvale Incursion by Necormancer Games (distributed by Frog God Games). Combine that with The Grey Citadel and yoy have yourself an awesome microsetting.

~O

I am hoping mine arrives today.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:01 pm

I was on a kick for ultra-micro RPGs so I thought I'd hunt down the elusive Doc's Games stuff... I found most of it:

Dinky Dungeons Rulebook (x2)

Lost Tomb of Antigorne / Sacrafice to the Blood Deity (x2)

Troll Canyon (x2)

Dinky Kingdom (x2)

Blades of Boardum (x2)

Small Space (x2)

Meks 'n Mekanoids

Chaotic Combiners

Beasts and Bots

Th' Dinky Dungeons Tome of Knowledge

Berzerko Tower / Doc's Maze

Siegewheel of the Blue Goblins

Freaks and Friendlies

Kreatures and Kin

Weapons Wastebucket

Body Count Comics #1

Body Count Comics #2
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concobar · Post by **concobar** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:29 pm

D&D essentials DMG and the heroes of the fallen lands books.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:20 pm

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
Yes, I read through the thread on it, here. I'm definitely interested, just overloaded with miniatures systems, at the moment. The price is definitely right! (Especially compared to Field of Glory -- man, you can drop some cash on that one, what with the Osprey rule book and army list books.)

I'm hoping you'll post some more details on the system, itself, and maybe some comparisons to other miniatures systems.

Field of Glory

*snip*
Swords & Spells

*snip*
Hordes of the Things

*snip*
Battlesystem and The Games of War

*snip*

Excellent post, thank you good sir.

I'm reading through this now and then I'll take a look at the links.

Just wanted do a quick reply for now.

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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:19 am

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
For anyone interested, some pics (mostly blurry, but a few good ones in there) of the Field of Glory game I played last night can be found here. Sorry for the blurry ones. I'm afraid I'm not much of a photographer.

Fantastic . . looks like loads of fun. I'd love to try this.

Btw, what's the scale of the minis?

Also, have a look at your camera manual to see if it has a macro setting feature for shooting. Most do and you can really get good shots of minis.

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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:15 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
Fantastic . . looks like loads of fun. I'd love to try this.

It's a blast. My FLGS just held a buy/sell/trade bazaar, and I picked up an army of 15mm Ptolemaic Egyptians that are already based, but not painted. (It's a Greek Macedonian successor state army, so it's based around pike phalanxes and cavalry, supplemented with Romanised infantry, skirmish troops, and elephants. I like it.) I also ordered a 15mm Late Republican Roman army from Old Glory 15s.

Quote:
Btw, what's the scale of the minis?

The minis in the photos are all 15mm scale. That seems to be the most popular Field of Glory scale, in general, and definitely the most popular around here. You have 40mm wide bases at that scale, with 1-4 models per base. (For examples, a base of elephants is just one elephant figure, but a base of heavy infantry pikemen is four figures per base.)

I'm drawn to the 6mm scale figures on 15mm scale bases. You end up with a lot more figures per base, so it looks like you're fighting a battle rather than a skirmish. However, nobody around here seems to do that, and 6mm ancients figures aren't widely available, from what I can tell. Oh well.

EDIT -- Aha! Scale Creep Miniatures carries Baccus6mm miniatures in army packs suitable for Field of Glory.

Quote:
Also, have a look at your camera manual to see if it has a macro setting feature for shooting. Most do and you can really get good shots of minis.

I shot those with the camera on my phone (probably one reason they're not so good). I'll try and good some shots with a proper camera, at some point.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:54 pm

Cybergeneration by R. Talsorian Games. I've been reading the manga version of Akira and of course that spearheaded in rereading Cybergeneration.

~O
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:00 pm

Bladestorm Bestiary.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:44 am

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
Your pics show a lot of individual figures. Does Fields of Battle have basing requirements at given scales? What is its "default scale" or sweet spot? How does it handle missiles (both ranges and rof) when changing scales? Is movement done per figure, or by group or formation, or both? How does it handle mixing the 1:1 scale (e.g. a single 10th level fighter) with unit scales?

[/i]

Oops, almost missed this . . give me a day or two and I'll post up a response.

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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

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