Low Level Wizards

[csbone]

From a mechanical point of view Wizards at lower levels well and truly suck. The spell Prestidigitation makes it a little better, but not much. The flip side is that at higher levels they end up as too powerful. Letting a Wizard multi-class with some thing else solves the lower level problem but changes the fundamental feel of a Wizard. For some games I dont mind the idea of mixing Wizards with other Classes. It can actually be kind of fun. A Rogue with Knock and Spider Climb, a Fighter with the ability to Protect himself, and Clerics with Fireballs sometimes tickle my fancy.

But sometimes I want a Wizard to be a Wizard. I want the feel that the incredible amount of time and effort it takes to do magic makes it difficult to do anything else. But I dont want playing a low level Wizard to suck and I dont want high level Wizards to dominate.

Does anybody besides me have these kinds of issues with Wizards? If so, what do you do about it?

C.S. Bone

[Maliki]

I guess opinions vary, I have no problem with low level wizards. True they have a limited number of spells at lower levels (But this is a lot more than they had in BD&D, 1E or 2E). Even when a wizard is out of spells he is not useless, he can still roleplay, solve puzzles, bind wounds, search for secret doors, and even throw a few daggers or such to support the fighter types.

The wizard does not have to dominate at high levels. By this point the wizard is fighting more powerful foes who should have some ideas on how to handle wizards.
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Never throw rocks at a man with a Vorpal Sword!

[Moorcrys]

In older editions of D&D (which C&C borrows heavily from), that was the payoff for wizards: low level weakness and fragility for high level power -- to reinforce the idea that there are very, very few high level wizards, but those few are not to be trifled with.

That being said, spells like sleep against your low level adversaries are incredibly powerful.

As a DM, for low level wizards I try to include situations and encounters where a bookish wizard, even without spells, can shine. Forgotten languages, puzzles, lost histories, things that allow wizards to show their intelligence. I generally place a low-level wand with a few charges or similar minor magical item somewhere in beginning adventures to give a wizard something to use in dire emergencies.

As a player, I hide in the back and throw darts.
I usually spend the first level or two really getting a handle on what personality I really want my wizard to have and flesh it out. Not much help to you, I think... but I guess you either get your DM to change things or just embrace the class as it is and make do.

Also remember that 1st and 2nd level wizards have the same 'base to hit' as most other classes (barring the fighter)... while their hit points prevent them from wading into melee, they should be able to use their darts pretty well at low levels.

I didn't particularly love playing 1st and 2nd level wizards, but mind you this was in 1st edition when you got 1 spell at first level... that was it. Now you have (probably) 7 spells to cast before needing a rest. Even those 4 cantrips feel like a bit of a windfall to me. I always loved playing them after 2nd, so it never was a game-breaker to me.
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Moorcrys

[Arten]

You might try out a spell point system instead of memorization. Just have each spell cost mana equal to it's level + 1, and take each spell you could memorize under the old system and turn it into mana points that you can freely sling about on any of the spells you know.

At high levels I think this becomes unbalanced, but you could make spells beyond 3rd level cost more, or some such.

[Treebore]

They only really suck until 3rd level. Then by 5th level they start their climb to power.

You can always give them a wand of magic missiles.

[serleran]

Wizards are actually more powerful in C&C than AD&D because they have more spells. They do not "suck" in the sense of "they have no power" but they do in the sense of "we have thirty fights one after another." This is one reason fighters are useful If it were all about the wizard.... why play anything else?

[Omote]

Hmm, personally I like to play low level wizards, especially so with a very good DM/CK. But I also just like to play low level PCs anyways.

Just personal opinion.

................................................Omote

FPQ
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Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[csbone]

Maliki, you make a good point. Primes change everything. An Intellegence Prime means a lotI keep forgetting that.

Everybody else, the more spells thing makes a big difference too.

Doesnt really solve the high level problem but I like low levels so I guess that isnt really a concern.

I guess Ive got some play testing to do.

Thanks guys.

C.S. Bone

[StealthSuitStanley]

I've always loved playing wizards of all levels. I think I have a lot of experience with them and there are a few important things to note:

1. Choice of spells makes the game. At 1st level, a magic missile will likely not do enough damage to kill one goblin out of 15 At third level, he can be sure he kills one, or take a risk and try to kill 2 of them. However, spells like hold portal can keep all 15 safely locked away indefinitely 8) . I see Magic Missile as a low level spell used at high levels (great against other planar creatures). Utility spells like Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, or Message are great spells when used well. And Prestidigitation...Don't get me started on how good that one is!

2. Wizards provide for more out of game roleplaying. Keep your CK updated on items/spells you plan on researching. Be sure he knows of your membership in various organizations, etc. CK's love having different hooks they can use for short jaunts within a large plot.

3. Mystery, fear and magic go hand in hand. Play his magical nature to the fullest. It is amazing what a wizard who is out of spells can do with a lump of coal and a captive! A lot of times, a CK will let you get away with things just because you came up with a good idea. Be inventive!

4. Role play, don't roll play. The same goes with every class, but it becomes more influential in game terms with wizards and bards. By simply using your status as a "sage," you can bluff your way into (or out of) situations.

A great quote from a 2ed book of which I can't remember the name goes something like this: "If I find out you died with spells un-cast, I will find your body, resurrect you, and kill you again, myself!"

[miller6]

If the high level wizards bother you, just put a level cap on the campaign. Or have the high level wizards retire to become NPCs.

Brian Miller
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"The adventure continues"

[gideon_thorne]

Even low level magic can be devistating to the gullable. Take Minor Image, a 2nd level spell. A low level illusionist can seem a powerful being with a combination of pure bullshit and perhaps the illusion of the character scooping up a small candle flame and making it appear that they blast forth a sheet of fire from their hand that engulfs the room.

It's not always the spell, its the style in how you use it. Think creatively, improvise.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[catenwolde]

In my limited time back playing I've found low-level C&C Wizards "just about right".
They have more spells than their precursors, and the spell selection is very good. Also, C&C is much more lenient about learning spells and casting from written sources, which is a significant boon.

Yes, low-level Wizards sometimes have to run ... but if you're DM'ing right, then the whole party will be running from time to time!
Although, as some have hinted above, the "morale" effect of magic use shouldn't be underestimated. What would the effect of a well-placed spell be on the reamining enemy? They don't know what level the wizard is! (Insert minor gripe that morale numbers weren't included in the M&T.)

Also, never forget the utility of carrying a spare suit of armor for when spells run out! For that matter, the -4 for using a "real" weapon is sometimes worth it, if it means you can attack from the second rank (or if you would have had a 20 to hit anyway).

Cheers,

Christopher

[serleran]

Quote:
(Insert minor gripe that morale numbers weren't included in the M&T.)

Hehe. I've fixed this. Can't make it public yet, but morale has been done.

[gideon_thorne]

serleran wrote:
Hehe. I've fixed this. Can't make it public yet, but morale has been done.

*chuckles* Probably not the 'official' method, but morale is easy.

Someone makes a bullshit roll (charisma check) the difficulty to counter it, ie a morale check, then becomes the amount the roll was made by.
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"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[Jyrdan Fairblade]

Yep. I can't remember where, but Gary Gygax once explained the seeming weakness of low-level wizards in the following way (paraphrased from memory):

Say an Orc charges a fighter. The fighter can take out the Orc in hand-to-hand, but risks personal injury during sustained combat. The wizard can cast the sleep spell and take out the Orc in one round, with no risk of personal injury.

And yes, a creative player and illusion spells are a great thing at low levels.

Moorcrys wrote:
That being said, spells like sleep against your low level adversaries are incredibly powerful.