The CKG is really too good.

[GameOgre]

I mean that. I'm still rereading it and the vast number of options and rule expansions is staggering.

The game has the option now of being the most crunch filled game I have ever run across. Now I know they are really just options and sugestions and for sure I'm not going to use 90% of them because well,thats not what I want.

Still though,after hours and hours of talking about options with my players we are no closer to writting our house rules in stone.

At this point im just acting like it doesnt exist for our games and doing things as we were doing them.

After we finally come to a agreement im not sure what our game is going to look like.

[GameOgre]

Really I guess im looking to see what everyone else thinks of a ton of this stuff. Where is Serl and Tree and DD with rule posts and debates and thoughts on how some of this stuff effects the game. Come on folks! I can't be the only one who bought the Digest CKG!

[serleran]

I don't start the arguments. I end them.


(At least at my table.)

[serleran]

However, there was one thing I discovered was missing from the CKG which is apparently possibly corrected in Pulp SIEGE, and that is rules for becoming psychotic, or being affected by a neurosis. I had developed my own rules for a variety of things but it was far too "real" (and unwieldy after giving it a shot) so I scraped it. In the interim, I'll probably redo it and see what happens... after all, I need to use a few monsters I have (which all cause loss of sanity in some form or another.)

[GameOgre]

For the most part I have found lose of Sanity in games to not work well. Really for the same reasons Illusions do not work well.

The players only have the Castle Keeper to use as there eyes,ears,nose and touch. They (need) that to be true in order to (be there) and have fun in game. Start fooking with that and they are helpless and ticked off. Kinda like when I used to play EQ(a mmo) and this one type of annoying as hell monster would cause me to go blind! My screen would go black and I could not even see the enterface. I remember thinking" WTF? who's dumb arse thought it would be fun to sit here not play???"

My players hate that kinda stuff to. Back when we played COC and they had mental breakdown due to the otherworldly monsters I tried to (role play) the insanity by telling them they saw a monster coming at them when it was really a harmless person ect.....after coming out of it and finding out they had been insane and killed people the game ended VERY fast as the players bite down on a shotgun redid the walla in red. ok well there characters did. The players just said" that crap isnt fun...back to D&D it is then!

[serleran]

I guess it depends on the sanity loss and effect. In my current game, I have one character who, upon snapping under torture, became infatuated with eating flesh particularly that of goblins and kobolds. This sort of insanity is not difficult to play and does not involve manipulation of any senses. It has so far turned into some rather interesting moments but has only been played for one session. If it becomes a burden, it should not prove difficult to resolve.

But, I do tend to agree that too much is too much. That is why I am interested in how Pulp SIEGE handles it.

[Breakdaddy]

OK, since you asked, here is my .00000000000002:
I find a lot of the stuff in the CKG useful for DIFFERENT types of campaigns. If I wanted a swords and sorcery game with more grit, install some of the wounds system and crit stuff. If I wanted a game where magic was more ubiquitous, install the mana system. If I want a game where I can have a sorceror-type class to add in alongside the Wizard, then implement the new spell slot system. Much of the rules I would only use in a modern or sci fi game. The list goes on, and I wont bore you further with it, but I think for any given game I might use a small percentage of the rules. For a game with a different style or flavor, I might use an entirely different subset of rules.

[Breakdaddy]

Oh, I am going to use the >level 10 powers for the classes FA SHO! I'm lovin' those. So those will be in any game I could foresee that is still Fantasy.

[Omote]

I've been using some of the combat rules in C&C for the past month or so, whenever this thing came out. To just willy-nilly incorporate, even 30% of the rules in the CKG is madness! There is just so much stuff to pick and choose from. One of the best things about all of these new rules and bits, it that it makes me think as a CK, "what could my C&C game feel like with some of these rules." Because, adding in just a small part has the potential of really changing the feel of your C&C games. We wanted some more combat options for our game because, lately, we have been really combat intensive in our C&C sessions. We through in about 2 pages worth of rules from the CKG combat section, and WAMMO, combat took probably 30%-40% longer then without that material. Now that is good for us, but YMMV.

Not every single rule in the CKG is designed to work together. If you were to add all of the rules that could work together, you have damn near the most crunch heavy RPG on the market, for sure. But that is not the point of the CKG at all. In fact, some chapters have no rules in them at all.

One of my favorite chapters is Chapter 14 Advancing the Game. This chapter has almost zero rules in it. In fact, I'm not sure if it has even one alternate or expanded rule. Anyway, this chapter alone might be worth it's weight in the price. The author presents many different thoughts and ideas on how to use different RPGing aspects in your game. Gold, maps, props, magic, all sorts of things. This chapter alone gave me lots of insight into my own games, and I've been running RPGs for over 20 years.

In many respects... hell, I'll just come out and say it..., the Castle Keeper's Guide is everything the orginal Dungeon Master's Guide was, and is now a whole lot more. The CKG should not just be read by C&C players/CKs either. Much of the information presented can be used with ANY fantasy RPG player and GM.

~O

[tylermo]

I want this book. Just a matter when. Peter's art will deliver the goods, and I look forward to Elmore's contributions as well. Not to mention all of the new options.

[Treebore]

I am not commenting because I ordered the Hardcover. So I do not have it yet.

[serleran]

Honestly, I have not read my smaller-than-digest version. I opened it and looked over the table of contents and the index and a few selected areas to glance at, but with it being a "test copy" I did not want to ruin it by being me.

[Tadhg]

I mean that. I'm still rereading it and the vast number of options and rule expansions is staggering.

The game has the option now of being the most crunch filled game I have ever run across. Now I know they are really just options and sugestions and for sure I'm not going to use 90% of them because well,thats not what I want.

Still though,after hours and hours of talking about options with my players we are no closer to writting our house rules in stone.

At this point im just acting like it doesnt exist for our games and doing things as we were doing them.

After we finally come to a agreement im not sure what our game is going to look like.

Good report . . . and, needless to say ~ I'm "EXCITED" and "PUMPED UP", yeah - to receive this book!!

[ArgoForg]

It gives me a lot of joy hearing everyone say what a great piece of gaming equipment the CKG is, and how pleased I'll be with it, and what an effect it could have on my game. Lots of joy.

Oh, no wait; my mistake. That's envy. Never mind.

(Kidding aside, I'm always excited to hear that everyone so far has been as impressed as they have with the CKG. That makes me salivate that much more for when the hardcovers come out!)

[Omote]

I'd like to go back to the original OP comment about the CKG being "too good." Is too good really a problem? I'm not thinking so. I can't wait until everybody starts getting their hardcover CKGs rolling in. There will be plenty to discuss. Let the good times roll!

~O

[Piperdog]

Man am I excited about getting this book. I don't have it yet, but from the information posted on the boards, I am getting the impression that it would be useful for potential publishers as well. From the sound of it, you could sort through all the concepts and options and literally forge your own unique game system.

[Aladar]

Now I am even more anxious to get the CKG!

[finarvyn]

Come on folks! I can't be the only one who bought the Digest CKG!

I really wanted to, but was afraid that the font size was too small. I struggle a little with all of the printings after the 1st because the font size got smaller, and I thought that shrinking it down to about half of the original size would drive me insane.

"I can see a rule ... almost ... there on the paper ... just can't ... quite ... darnit."

I'm waiting for the "regular human-sized" version so I can buy all three (PH-CKG-M&T) in matching 4th print green!