Getting back into C&C

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:47 pm

I have some C&C books from when I first got into the game a while back and I'm looking to get back into it now. I'm wondering if there is a new version/printing of the player's guide and monsters & treasure please?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:55 pm

The players handbook is up to a 4th print and the M&T is at its third. You may even find Of Gods and Monsters and the M&T of Airhde of interest. Fields of Battle Boxed set, and other stuff. Oh, and the CKG is finally out.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:28 am

4th printing of the PHB.
3rd Printing of the Monsters & Treasures.
Castle Keeper's Guide.

I'm not sure what version of the PHB/M&T you have, but the newest printings (particularly of the PHB) are the bomb-diggity. For example, with the newest version of the PHB not only do you get the standard errata, but the layout is much better, new art, etc. AND, there is an appendix that has two-official versions of multi-classing! Yay.

The newest version of the M&T includes errata, and a new layout, which is pretty spiffy.

Castle Keeper's Guide. It's all optional and expanded rules for the C&C game. It's 290+ pages of awesome. There is nothing else that needs to be said.

Get this core stuff, and you'll be rockin' with the C&C once again.

WELCOME BACK DADDYSTABZ! It has been a while good sir. All the best.

~O

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:11 am

Thank you all so much! I can't wait to play.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:20 am

daddystabz wrote:Thank you all so much! I can't wait to play.

Excellent, daddystabz . . let us know how it goes!!

Enjoy the game,

Rhu.

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:21 am

If I were to purchase the following does anyone know if each of these is the newest printing?: http://www.trolllord.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id=114

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:27 am

They are all of the latest printing. Additionally, I'm 99% sure all of the books in that lot are perfect bound. None of them are hardcover books.

~O

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:02 am

Whoa!! That's a very nice dealio, for sure.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:04 am

Unless otherwise noted, which has been never, the books purchased directly from TLG are the latest releases. The only slight exception has been the special edition leatherette versions.

GreyLord · Post by **GreyLord** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:06 am

serleran wrote:Unless otherwise noted, which has been never, the books purchased directly from TLG are the latest releases. The only slight exception has been the special edition leatherette versions.

Which I might add, were awesome.

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:08 pm

So perfect bound is softback? Are they smaller than normal size, etc?

Dead Horse · Post by **Dead Horse** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:18 pm

Perfect bound is standard sized.

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:26 pm

Regular size but softback....got ya!

Post by **finarvyn** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:49 pm

daddystabz wrote:I have some C&C books from when I first got into the game a while back and I'm looking to get back into it now. I'm wondering if there is a new version/printing of the player's guide and monsters & treasure please?

I'm glad that you're getting back into the game. Of course the new printings are the best ones, but since you have old copies I'd say just jump on in! There have been some small tweaks along the way, but the essence of C&C really hasn't changed much at all!

Geleg · Post by **Geleg** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:03 pm

i'll echo the sentiments - glad to have you back!

the newest printings are substantially better in layout and general usability. the only major change that has caused much in the way of comment is some modifications to the Illusionist class in the 4th printing. Folks are pretty split on that one. If you search the boards you'll find a recent thread about it, IIRC.

daddystabz · Post by **daddystabz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:09 pm

Thank you all so much! Good to see the community is just as fantastic as ever!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:13 pm

Geleg wrote:i'll echo the sentiments - glad to have you back!

the newest printings are substantially better in layout and general usability. the only major change that has caused much in the way of comment is some modifications to the Illusionist class in the 4th printing. Folks are pretty split on that one. If you search the boards you'll find a recent thread about it, IIRC.

I don't know, I really like the newest version of the "grappling" type of rules in the 4th printing, but I do also like the rewrite of the Barbarian. I think the Monk is still largely an very ineffective combat class. Not so much on attacking, but they are still too easy to hit. I think going with a +1 increase to AC every 2 levels, plus allow them to use magical rings, cloaks and shields would help them be more viable and would definitely have them be much more the "hard to hit" martial artists we see in movies.
So even though the core rules have not changed, enough things have been changed to make the 4th printing definitely the best version to have.

Geleg · Post by **Geleg** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:45 pm

Treebore wrote: So even though the core rules have not changed, enough things have been changed to make the 4th printing definitely the best version to have.

no arguments from me here. I'm happy with the 4e printing save for the Illusionist. But you can't please everyone, right?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:16 pm

Geleg wrote:
Treebore wrote: So even though the core rules have not changed, enough things have been changed to make the 4th printing definitely the best version to have.
no arguments from me here. I'm happy with the 4e printing save for the Illusionist. But you can't please everyone, right?

Very true.

zarathustra · Post by **zarathustra** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:58 am

Geleg wrote:
Treebore wrote: So even though the core rules have not changed, enough things have been changed to make the 4th printing definitely the best version to have.
no arguments from me here. I'm happy with the 4e printing save for the Illusionist. But you can't please everyone, right?

Yep, thankfully the illusionist is easy to take healing spells out and sub in a few from the C&C rules compilation (threads here or at dragonsfoot I believe) to compensate.

Mark Hall · Post by **Mark Hall** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:37 pm

The more I look at it, the more I am dissatisfied with the Illusionist. I've wound up kicking our illusionist over the Bard XP table, because the Wizard table is WAY too high for the level of power an Illusionist has. Whereas wizard spells have scaling damages, Illusionist spells often have static, and, frequently, specifically only work once. Illusionists have some neat spells, but their XP table is whack, and someone REALLY got married to dragon imagery in the design process.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:02 pm

Mark Hall wrote:...and someone REALLY got married to dragon imagery in the design process.

I think the dragon imary comes from the mind of Jim Ward. Also, I think with the right player to manipulate the wording of the illusionist spells, and a generous CK, the illusionist is extremely powerful.

~O

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:27 pm

I find it odd that some of the most useful spells for an illusionist are extremely high level... spells like polymorph for example. I am thinking of switching them between wizard and illusionist so that the latter gets it as a 4th level spell and the former as an 8th.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:11 pm

What is really odd, is the illusionist getting polymorph. Polymorph is a transmutation spell, not an illusion. You are going to penalize the wizard, for the illusionist being wishy-washy?

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:21 pm

It is an illusion. The caster gains only the appearance of the creature and perhaps some natural abilities, but none of the magical (supernatural) traits. Perhaps make it illusionist 4, wizard 6 and leave shapechange as 9 for wizards. I would not allow illusionists to have polymorph other or even polymorph item, so in that light, I hold that the spell is, essentially, a supercharged "change self."

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