Yet Another Two-Weapon Fighting Idea?

[KaiserKris]

I've been putting together an extensive list of houserules, and I was thinking of the two-weapon fighting problem.

What I was thinking was that, perhaps, the character would make both rolls, and take the better of the two weapon rolls as their 'attack', using their Dexterity bonus to attack, instead of their Strength bonus. You'd also be able to use only appropriate weapons with the style (rapier and dagger, twin daggers, twin shortswords), so you'd miss out on a lot of the really powerful weapons pretty much automatically. They would also lose out on their Strength bonus for damage.

I know it's going to come up- there's always someone who wants to at least try it occasionally, and two seperate attacks with two seperate damage rolls seems to be too powerful. You can increase the penalty, but then it just becomes totally useless.

[moriarty777]

It's not a bad idea but, depending on the mentality of your players, it could get abused. Consider this:

A character intended to do a bunch of melee is likely to have a good Dexterity score along with their Strength and, if you are using the 'standard' C&C attributed mods, there isn't much of a variance between a character with a score of 13 or one with a score of 17 -- especially if the players assign the scores to the various abilities themselves. What some players may find is that two weapons are better than one and they are basically getting a free re-roll for every attack. The -3 / -6 split is a good compensation IMO and really does wonders to negate massive amounts of damage being dealt out, at least for lower levels. For higher level play where the penalties are no longer an issue, you will find that the opponents will likely have a higher HP amount to compensate. Also consider the kind of damage a 5th level Wizard is able to dish out with a fireball for comparison.

I've actually have done this before to reflect the abilities of 'Veteran Elite' goblins. They had all the regular stats but I rolled twice with the better roll being used for a single attack unless the lower dice result was a critical miss (thus negating the everything else). These were simple 1 HD critters which means a BtH of +1. Despite the fact they were outgunned and outmatched by a party who was an average of 3rd level, my little troop of 4 goblins ended up being devastating because how I ruled the 'Veteran Elite' abilities. I'm no math wiz but from what I see, it seriously tips the scale of probabilities.

If you do want to try something like this for two weapon fighting, I suggest a -4 penalty on all rolls and have this penalty offset by the dexterity mod. That's my two coppers for whatever it's worth.

M

[KaiserKris]

It's not a bad idea but, depending on the mentality of your players, it could get abused. Consider this:

A character intended to do a bunch of melee is likely to have a good Dexterity score along with their Strength and, if you are using the 'standard' C&C attributed mods, there isn't much of a variance between a character with a score of 13 or one with a score of 17 -- especially if the players assign the scores to the various abilities themselves. What some players may find is that two weapons are better than one and they are basically getting a free re-roll for every attack. The -3 / -6 split is a good compensation IMO and really does wonders to negate massive amounts of damage being dealt out, at least for lower levels. For higher level play where the penalties are no longer an issue, you will find that the opponents will likely have a higher HP amount to compensate. Also consider the kind of damage a 5th level Wizard is able to dish out with a fireball for comparison.

I've actually have done this before to reflect the abilities of 'Veteran Elite' goblins. They had all the regular stats but I rolled twice with the better roll being used for a single attack unless the lower dice result was a critical miss (thus negating the everything else). These were simple 1 HD critters which means a BtH of +1. Despite the fact they were outgunned and outmatched by a party who was an average of 3rd level, my little troop of 4 goblins ended up being devastating because how I ruled the 'Veteran Elite' abilities. I'm no math wiz but from what I see, it seriously tips the scale of probabilities.

If you do want to try something like this for two weapon fighting, I suggest a -4 penalty on all rolls and have this penalty offset by the dexterity mod. That's my two coppers for whatever it's worth.

M

I didn't add in there that they'd also miss out on the Strength bonus to damage (It's been edited now). But I see where you're coming from.

[Zudrak]

I use the -3/-6, but let the Dex mod offset the penalties. So, if a PC's Dex mod is +2 the penalties are -1/-4. I'm not sure if this is the rule as written or if it's what I took from the 1e AD&D PHB, but I *think* that (1e PHB) is where I got the idea from.

[Omote]

That is how the rule is written in C&C Zudrak.

~O

[Lord Dynel]

...I was thinking of the two-weapon fighting problem.

I'm not trying to be snarky, Kris, but what two-weapon fighting problem?

I do what Omote and Zudrak speak of - the RAW (-3/-6 to attack, modified by Dex, Str to damage). It works out wonderfully. I'm so glad the Trolls went this method - it's simple and it works pretty good. I have been considering giving those with Dex Prime an additional +1 on the two attacks, but I haven't done it yet (as I haven't seen the need to).
Have you had problems in play, Kris, with two-weapon fighting? By the tone of your post I'd say you haven't. Maybe let it play out and see how it works before modifying it? Again, not trying to be snarky but I advocate not mucking up the game with house rules if they're not needed.

[serleran]

I typically avoid anything that involves having to roll a lot. I like dice. I like using them. But, I don't want to have to roll, check, roll, check... just for one attack. Especially when I might have to do that 10+ times in a combat round.

But, that said, I like the idea... I'd just ensure I limited it, or make it so players reconsidered using it. Problem there is that, if one makes it suck, why even have it at all?

[KaiserKris]

...I was thinking of the two-weapon fighting problem.

I'm not trying to be snarky, Kris, but what two-weapon fighting problem?

I do what Omote and Zudrak speak of - the RAW (-3/-6 to attack, modified by Dex, Str to damage). It works out wonderfully. I'm so glad the Trolls went this method - it's simple and it works pretty good. I have been considering giving those with Dex Prime an additional +1 on the two attacks, but I haven't done it yet (as I haven't seen the need to).
Have you had problems in play, Kris, with two-weapon fighting? By the tone of your post I'd say you haven't. Maybe let it play out and see how it works before modifying it? Again, not trying to be snarky but I advocate not mucking up the game with house rules if they're not needed.

Dude, no worries. It's more of a speculative thing than a serious issue I've had.

I'm a bit of an inveterate houseruler, so I don't mind hearing advocations of the rules that are presented in game.