Qs about grappling & overbearing (errata?)

[kreider204]

Hey, folks. I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post, so be nice. I'm sure this has been discussed, but I did a couple of searches and didn't find exactly what I was looking for. I'm a bit confused about the grappling and overbearing rules, and some of it might be due to some editing issues.

First of all, in the grappling section (page 131 PHB), second paragraph:

"The armor class of a defender in an overbearing attack is different than normal."

I'm assuming that should say "grappling" rather than "overbearing," yes?

Second, a bit later in that paragraph:

"The AC is modified by the strength, the dexterity, the BtH or hit dice of the defender, as well as the size difference between the two opponents."

Those AC modifiers are cumulative, yes?

Next, down in the section on overbearing:

"For overbearing, however, the defender’s strength, BtH or hit dice, and size difference modifies the standard armor class. For each size difference larger add +2, and for each size difference smaller subtract -2. In addtion [sic] the armor class is modifed [sic] by the defenders [sic] BtH."

Is that redundant (the duplicate mention of the BtH), or am I missing something? (Also: three spelling / grammar errors in one sentence ... )

Also, just to clarify, the only difference is that the defender's AC is modified by Dexterity for grappling, but not for overbearing, correct?

Thanks in advance.

[Keolander]

Personally, I make the AC the same as in melee combat since (to me at least) there is no fundamental difference between whacking someone with a sword and moving in and grabbing them by their short hairs, except that you (the grappler) are sacrificing the advantage of keeping out of knife-fighting range. Of course, I don't use Armor-type to determine AC (only certain melee weapons/moves, Dex Bonus and a few other assorted bonuses) so my PCs have lower AC than normal (I also use 3d6 instead of d20...but that is neither here nor there ).

[Omote]

I'm assuming, kreider204, that you have an older printing of the PHB. I do not have a PHB near me at the moment, but these grappling and overbearing rules did go through an update in the most recent version of the PHB (the green cover version) to make them more clear.

The AC modifiers are cumulative. Yes.

For overbearing, the defenders AC is modified only by STR mod + BTH (or HD) + SIZE difference.

Essentially a PC has 3 different type of ACs: the standard armored AC, the Grappling AC, and the Overbearing AC. Each one has a slightly different formula for deriving the AC.

The overbearing formula does not figure in the defenders DEX mod for the purposes of Overbearing AC.

~O

[Traveller]

No, he's talking the latest print. The earlier prints never went beyond 128 pages and he refers to page 131 in his questions.

[Omote]

Is that redundant (the duplicate mention of the BtH), or am I missing something?

Re: Traveller, Oh yes, you would be right. Got to love a big, honking 130+ page book.

Kreider: Indeed, that last sentance is redundant. Overbearing AC is modified by STR mod, BTH/HD and size diff only.

~O

[kreider204]

Thanks, folks - that clears everything up for me.

As I'm relatively new to C&C, be prepared for more questions ...

(And, yep, I have the most recent printing - it looks as though that section is substantively accurate, but missed a bit of proofing is all.)

[Omote]

Fire away with your questions Kreider! We can handle it. Welcome to the Crusade.

~O

[kreider204]

Fire away with your questions Kreider! We can handle it.

Okay - you asked for it ...

[Traveller]

Any errors in proofreading or otherwise that you find in the book, pass them on to the Trolls either through email or PM, preferably both.

[kreider204]

Will do!