High level spells.....

[Dead Horse]

The 8th level cleric spell Mass Heal... is brutal. If you allow healing to damage undead the cleric can top off hps on his entire party and nearly flatten every undead in sight.
I would have to say that the cleric should chose to heal friends or harm undead. One or the other not both! A ranged spell with no number of target restrictions and leaves the undead with 4 hps each plus heal all your friends... dynamite!

Played a one off with some of my inlaws kids... neices nephews etc...
My nephew blind sided me with this spell. An entire cortie of 15 vampires down to 4hps in one instant.

[redwullf]

Well...we are talking about a minimum 15th level Cleric, right? They should be pretty bad-ass by this level.

[Dead Horse]

I agree 8th level spells should be potent. This spell does double duty and without the usualy limit of by touch.

[Arduin]

Well...we are talking about a minimum 15th level Cleric, right? They should be pretty bad-ass by this level.

Yes, someone who can bring the dead back to life is a person I wouldn't mess with in a million years.

[redwullf]

Well...we are talking about a minimum 15th level Cleric, right? They should be pretty bad-ass by this level.

Yes, someone who can bring the dead back to life is a person I wouldn't mess with in a million years.

Should add that the typical Vampire is 8 HD, which a 15th level Cleric could easily turn or destroy en masse. So, the effect of the spell isn't so over the top.

[alcyone]

Well, it sounds ok with me. I think at these high levels, in an ongoing campaign, it's nice to let the players be awesome once or twice with the same trick. They are stuck with the spell, chose it for its specific use, while you as the CK can adapt and thwart them with a twist when they get too confident with it. When they are loaded for bear and find the bears are elephants, that can be a blast.

It's frustrating when you never get to be awesome. I say let it go. Between spell slots and spell research, this stuff is self-limiting.

[Dead Horse]

It was a pack of 8th level vampires and 3 three age advanced vamps (black librum).
It wasnt supposed to be a major encounter. i gave the kids a party of 16th to 20th level chars.
I am still shocked with the power of this one spell. it blows every other 8th and 9 th level away. only thing i would compare it to is wish and i still doubt a CK would allow a wish to heal 5 chars and nearly kill 10 vampires. seems a bit much for me.

[Arduin]

I am still shocked with the power of this one spell. it blows every other 8th and 9 th level away.

Not really. It can heal people and harm undead. There are MUCH better spells for dealing general damage and mayhem. It IS a good healing spell though.

[Tadhg]

A great spell . . very powerful, but not overpowered IMO for a high level cleric. Obviously a CK needs to know and be prepared for any and all spells that might be used by players (an admittedly challenging task) and perhaps have some encounters, monsters and/or thwarting traps to deal with or lessen high level spells - I know, also not an easy thing to do.

And don't forget that you can use boatloads of counter spells cast by the enemies that can interrupt, negate or interfere with high level spells. For instance, an evil cleric or wizard suddenly teleports into the room and stuns (or kills - {CKG discretion}) that good cleric!!!
Bang ~ matter resolved!!

[Omote]

This is one reason to NOT allow spontaneous casting.

~O

[Relaxo]

I thought spontaneous was only to ditch spells to sway for healing spells, thoguh

[Arduin]

I thought spontaneous was only to ditch spells to sway for healing spells, thoguh

Mass "Heal" is a healing spell...

[alcyone]

I thought spontaneous was only to ditch spells to sway for healing spells, thoguh

Mass "Heal" is a healing spell...

Yeah, really it should be "cure" spells, not healing spells; those are the ones that 3.5 lets the cleric cast spontaneously; spells with "cure" in the name.

[Lord Dynel]

Yeah, going by the 3.5 rules, you can't sub out for Mass Heal. In my last game, I did allow clerics to spontaneously cast "cure" spells (though I don't know if I will next time) but he never got up to this power.

Even if you did allow them to spontaneously cast (Heal and) Mass Heal, and allow it to affect undead, odds are they probably wouldn't waste it on an undead attack anyway, unless it was at the end of the day and they party was in really good shape. And if that's the case, then the CK isn't doing his job good enough. I say "waste" because I would doubt that a 15th level cleric (at least in my game) hoard an 8th level spell in anticipation for an undead attack. If they were expecting it, maybe. But a well planned encounter on the CK's part might involvee a two-stage attack or other strategy that might have the cleric blow that spell too early, or at an inopportune time.

That's assuming that you would allow such things in your game. Of course the easy way to would be to not allow the spontaneous casting of Heal spells...or any spells at all.

[redwullf]

The simple fact of the matter is that Clerics are great at crushing undead. It's just what they do.