Classic Monsters: The Manual... Pre-Order AND Kickstarter

[Omote]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676 ... onster-man

The ole' Troll Lord is up to some new stuff. Apparently this might be a new way to pre-order this book, get your name in the book (I think), and get a ton of other personalized TLG stuff to boot.

I saw this posted in Facebook today. It needed to be shared.

~O

[Omote]

Whoops! I see da Troll Guy already done posted about this right here:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11662

~O

[mbeacom]

Tried to pledge but they don't take paypal.

[Frost]

Just tossed in my 25 bones. Been itching for this book.

[Frost]

Folks who want to see this book see the light of day should be sure to pimp it out a bit. I spread the word on my blog and Twitter (for what it's worth).

[Tadhg]

Excellente!

I'll be pitching some cash for this project, FOR SURE MAN!!

[DeadReborn]

So, if I'm reading this right, unless $4,000 gets raised this book isn't coming out?

[Lobo316]

What exactly is going to be presented in this book that isn't arleady available in M&T? What "classic" monsters are they refering to? I think M&T is chock full of some classics (outside of WotC trademarks of course, like the Beholder).

[Frost]

I asked this on the Kickstarter site as well, but the Trolls should like post some clarification about what they mean by "personalized" printing of the PH and M&T. Are those hardbacks?

[ArgoForg]

Tried to pledge but they don't take paypal.

Ditto. I'll try to pledge at least $25 ASAP, but money's tight for me and mine at the mo and paypal would have been my saving grace.

[Troll Lord]

To be very clear.

This book is coming out regardless of kickstarter or not. We aren't using the kickstarter to fund the book as much as we are as a pre-order system.

More of an explanation coming this afternoon . . .

Steve

[DeadReborn]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was starting to go in to panic mode being I don't have the money to pre-order.

[Frost]

Steve, you might consider IndieGoGo as an other option to Kickstarter: link. It is similar, but does not have the "hit this dollar amount or it doesn't happen" limitation.

Here is a comparison of the two services: link

This guy is using IndieGoGo for "Crypts & Things," his Conan-esque take on Swords & Wizardy: link

[mbeacom]

Tried to pledge but they don't take paypal.

Ditto. I'll try to pledge at least $25 ASAP, but money's tight for me and mine at the mo and paypal would have been my saving grace.

Me too. I have money sitting in my paypal account from some stuff I sold on ebay. I wanted to use that money instead of running up another credit card bill. Ended up talking to my wife and was able to put it on a card with nothing else on it so I can just pay that off right away. Was the first Skobbit Lord in the thing. Can't wait to see the T-Shirt! Seeing this is nearly at halfway and its only 3 days in, I think we've got a good chance to pull it off.

[Troll Lord]

Using Kickstarters was a carefully considered decision and one we hesitated to pull the trigger on even at the last minute.

However, we did pull it for several reasons. Let me elaborate.

When we began this publishing venture the market was very different. Distribution sales dominated everything. The retail market set the pace and tone. Mac Golden worked very hard to have TLG picked up by a consolidator, Wizard's Attic, a forwarded house that would handle sales for us. The idea of selling direct from our website in 2000 was almost non-existant. Amazon had only just begun its growth and online retailers were not the norm. In those days and really up through about 2006 or so a publisher could bank on pre-orders. We knew for instance, that the two top distributors had orders for 2200 Codex of Erdes. That was on day one. With no returns it was money we knew would be paid into the coffers within 90 days. This made securing short term loans an easy venture; we could borrow money to pay for salaries, insurance, overhead, printing, dr. pepper, strippers, etc etc. As many of you may or may not know most businesses use short term loans to safeguard their cash flow. This nice thing about the pre-order system was if a product had no interest from the retail market we could drop it before going to press, reducing our risk.

This system however began to erode after the d20 bust. Distributors and retailers were left with mountains of RPGs in stock and some destroyed them and some hoped to sell them through, but all began to drop off pre-ordering products as it became very risky. It coincided with a boom in board games so with no revenue lost they were not concerned about RPGs. This affected and still affects big and small, its an industry wide problem.

By 08 the pre-order system was all but dead, but for some time was being replaced by online direct to consumer pre-orders, but rarely in the numbers you would see in the good old says through the distribution channel.

This served for awhile but it to began to erode as product format began to diversify. We are in the midst of that. Discussions on these boards has carried that out as well. "I'm not sure how I want the book, so I'll wait until all versions come out." or "I'll wait until the PDF." etc etc. Well this shied people off pre-ordering online. Delays from manufacturers (CKG) didn't help, but rather solidified the concept that waiting is just fine. Decreased production time has also put pressure on the pre-order.

So what does all this mean. Two things. Cash flow and interest. In another thread Traveler mentioned that Kickstarter is a way to gauge interest. And he is correct. Publishing is a risky business, and costly as you all know. Where the distribution pre-order system and to a lessar extent the direct-to-consumer pre-order system gave us solid ideas on what sales numbers would be and could then set us a good tone for what we wanted to have printed/manufactured, the present environment fails. This impacts potential cash flow. Because now we are shooting in the dark, and it really shooting in the dark. A8 is outselling A7 2-1. Why? Who the @*&(@ knows. Is it the cover? title? Hard to say.

This is where kickstarter comes into play. The question for us isn't cash flow to get the product done, but rather cash flow over the life of the product; obviously the more pre-orders the better as it reduces risk. However, it might serve as a gauge of interest. If noone pre-orders it means one of two things: one, not enough consumers want the product or two, the people are not comfortable with the kickstarter format. I have no date to support otherwise, only a 'buzz on the web' about the book. It was off to a roaring start, which is good. The cash flow is good as any short term loan is for any business. (this is really why the banking crises hit so many businesses so hard, small business often operate on lines of credit, not because they aren't solvent, but because cash flow can be sporadic, as you have to pre-pay suppliers but don't always get paid yourself, my box maker friend had his biggest client go under and he ended up losing 35,000.00 dollars over night...her outstanding bill...two of his employees to go as his cash flow dried up suddenly).

The downside to kickstarter is that it puts it all out there for everyone to see. And I'm not so sure that is a good idea as a lack of confidence or interest may dissuade people from pre-ordering or even buying. That is dangerous for any business.

Add to this that I despite my hatred of the phone I must learn to use the new technology, not because I don't need to be a ludite (Or whatever that word is) but rather because the new tech is actually playing a heavy role in eroding the old business platforms. And I'm an economic darwinist in the end, its evolve or die. Kickstarter may be the presage of things to come.

So its a catch 22 and one I'm watching very closely.

Can it replace the pre-order system? Absolutely. But to do so its got to be successful. Do we need the pre-order system replaced? Absolutely. So all in all the good out weigh the bad and though there is risk, we don't mind taking risks.

As a short aside, the Kickstarter also gives TLG a foil; someone else to organize these multiple pre-order options with t shirts and coins etc etc. Something, organizationally, we can't really do on our own site. Its just too comburesome with the basket system.

I hope this works. I sincerely do. It allows TLG closer contact with folks who play the game which is just damned cool and it may replaced a system that was invaluable with one that allows us to manage the product and you to manage what you want out of it. Its a good idea all other things notwithstanding.

Now here is a lingering thought on Kickstarter. Where before the distributors worked tirelessly to make retailers aware of products and we could see large pre-orders in the system, TLG needs to do the same as its own vehicle to bring people on board the Kickstarter project. Your going to see and hear me talking about this alot. Because the key is to make people aware of something. If they don't know its out there, then they can't support it. And this is where I would appreciate any and all help from you guys. Retweet, cross post, mention it whatever. Anything to get people turning in this direction.

Last note: If this is successful we'll do it again. And with the increased cash flow we'll be able to produce more C&C goodness. And that is a good thing!

Thanks for listening!
Steve

[AGNKim]

What exactly is going to be presented in this book that isn't arleady available in M&T? What "classic" monsters are they refering to? I think M&T is chock full of some classics (outside of WotC trademarks of course, like the Beholder).

While the M&T does have some of the old D&D classic monsters, CM:TM revisits some it missed, including some of the more esoteric ones that hold a special place to us old guys. Some we couldn't use because WotC are poopyheads, but there are a lot that we COULD use and I made the most of them. Not to give away too much, but I will say this:

Flail Snail.

[Omote]

Flail Snail.

And they say heroes are dead... I say not!

~O

[Tadhg]

Great post, Steve!!

I'll be kickin' a pre-order in ~ forthwith!

[zacharythefirst]

Very cool. I love this model. Put me down for $25. That seems like a heck of a bargain.

[Frost]

Retweet, cross post, mention it whatever. Anything to get people turning in this direction.

Blogged and tweeted, my man.

[Dead Horse]

Kickstarter is over 3,300 $ now.

[zacharythefirst]

$3500 now. Man, they have gained a ton of backers since Sunday!

[mbeacom]

Was able to get a card freed up and jumped on board for $35. Also blogged about this on my gaming blog. Thanks so much for the thorough and informative post Steve!

[Lord Dynel]

Sitting at almost $3800 now.

I'm in for $50.

And thanks to Steve for his perspectve and insight.

[mbeacom]

Just passed $4000! Great job everyone!

[AGNKim]

Seeing the interest in this is pretty cool and a little intimidating. Thanks for all the positive words, guys. I'm humbled.

[Frost]

Wow. Hit the mark with plenty of time to spare. I'd say that was a successful experiment!

[redwullf]

So, those backers who pledge after the goal is reached - do they still receive the benefits for their pledge? Or are those perks only for backers up to the goal amount?

Naturally, I ask because I pledged right around the goal this morning - there's no way to see if I pledged just before the goal was reached, or after. In my mind, of course, I prefer to think of myself as the backer who pushed the project to the goal amount.

[gideon_thorne]

So, those backers who pledge after the goal is reached - do they still receive the benefits for their pledge? Or are those perks only for backers up to the goal amount?

Naturally, I ask because I pledged right around the goal this morning - there's no way to see if I pledged just before the goal was reached, or after. In my mind, of course, I prefer to think of myself as the backer who pushed the project to the goal amount.

Yes. So if people want to continue to pledge on this project, feel free. The more the merrier. Keep the ball rolling folks. It only helps out in the long run.

[Troll Lord]

So, those backers who pledge after the goal is reached - do they still receive the benefits for their pledge? Or are those perks only for backers up to the goal amount?

Naturally, I ask because I pledged right around the goal this morning - there's no way to see if I pledged just before the goal was reached, or after. In my mind, of course, I prefer to think of myself as the backer who pushed the project to the goal amount.

TROLLZAH! You knocker her over. That means basically that the project is now a go from Kickstarter's standpoint and everyone will be charged on the 2nd etc.

The pledges deals continue until the pre-order closes on the 2nd of December. At that point we'll close that down and release the book for sale when it is printed.

So as Peter says, now is the time. If you want the pre-order and all that it comes with it enlist in the Crusade!

Steve

ps: I'm always torn between the Troll and Crusader/Castle metaphor. Should I say we are (as in people who play C&C) Trolls or Crusaders? or Crusading Trolls.