New to C&C looking for advice

[NeoFax]

I am a new player to C&C and my first game is this friday. I own the PHB 4E and am looking for the best way to learn the rules. I have been playing Pathfinder since it came out and 4E before that almost when it came out. TIA!

[redwullf]

Your Pathfinder experience will serve you better than your 4E experience when it comes to understanding the rules mechanics, since they are more "d20-like" than 4E. However, to genuinely address the question, your best bet is to read the book from cover to cover. Naturally, you can skip over some major sections (like most of the spells) if you're crunched for time, but I would recommend at least reading the entire sections on classes, races, and then everything from pg. 117 to the back of the book. Again, if you're crunched for time (or an experienced GM), then reading from pg. 123 to the back of the book should do. Ultimately, I recommend reading the book in its entirety.

If you fully grasp character and race features and abilities and the SIEGE engine™ mechanic, as well as the rules for combat, you should at least be ready to kick off your session.

Oh, and when it comes to Pathfinder combat rules, my best advice is to "forget what you know." The complex movement, actions, and attacks of opportunities don't exist in C&C - it's simplicity is its beauty - and you're going to find yourself trying to apply those PFRPG concepts when you first start playing. Just try your best to ignore them, use the C&C combat rules, and apply common sense to whatever is not written in the book.

[Lord Dynel]

Welcome to the Crusade, NeoFax!

If Pathfinder and 4E are your first experiences with tabletop rpgs, then one big difference you'll notice is that there aren't "feats," "skills," or "powers" like in those games. Some people need those quantifiers. One thing that is common with those who play C&C is that we realize that while those things seem to give you options, what they actually do is give you limitations. Some people fall into the thinking that if it's not on your character sheet then your character can't perform it, thus limiting your options as to what your character can and can't do (fundamentally, of course). Now, I can't speak for everyone...others may not feel the same way.

For me, with C&C, you have the world at your fingertips. I mean, a fighter can't pick up a spellbook and start casting spells but he can attempt to do things without checking to see if he's got the correct feat or the appropriate skill. Rules aren't exhaustive and constant page flipping during the game session is greatly reduced.

Once you learn the SIEGE engine, you're pretty much good to go. If you don't have the resource (meaning, the PHB) then I'd suggest brushing up on the Qucik Start, found here.

And if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. We're all pretty friendly around here so don't hesitate!

[CKDad]

The good news is that the rules in C&C are far, far fewer in number than in either of the games you mentioned. Most people who started playing RPGs in the 3.x/Pathfinder/4E era don't seem to have problems learning the rules, but rather adapting the mindset that you can at least try to do anything not explicitly forbidden, rather than only being able to take actions covered in the rules.

Welcome to the Crusade, by the way!

[Omote]

Welcome to the Crusade NeoFax!

~O

[mbeacom]

Welcome. Hope to see you stick around!

[Relaxo]

WELCOME DUDE!

If the quickstart is still on trollord.com, read that cover to cover (won't take as long, LOL) to get a feel for it.
The big thing, coming from 3e is that it's easy to think, "is that it? isn't X, Y, Z like, MISSING?!" The answer is no. Trust the siege engine. Play RAW a few hours before you houserule anything and focus on story and FUN.

Get used to combats going faster too, unless your players are fixated on very specific combat maneuvers that require a ruler and protractor to adjudicate.
TO BE CLEAR: I am NOT edition bashing: I'm just saying the combat in C&C is simpler to run b/c you can make things up and there aren't 45 pages of rules for each little move. I prefer this, but others do not and this is all OK.
But it is a difference, and it's worth pointing out.

Hope you like it! Great community here!

[DeadReborn]

Welcome to the Crusade! For me, coming from a 2e background and running it here and there, C&C makes me feel completely at home behind the screen. I feel like I've run far more games than I actually have. I don't feel bogged down with having to remember so many rules and I can concentrate more on creating a story with our group, improvising where needed, and most importantly, having fun.

[Norjax]

....then one big difference you'll notice is that there aren't "feats," "skills," or "powers" like in those games. Some people need those quantifiers. One thing that is common with those who play C&C is that we realize that while those things seem to give you options, what they actually do is give you limitations. Some people fall into the thinking that if it's not on your character sheet then your character can't perform it, thus limiting your options as to what your character can and can't do (fundamentally, of course). Now, I can't speak for everyone...others may not feel the same way.

For me, with C&C, you have the world at your fingertips. I mean, a fighter can't pick up a spellbook and start casting spells but he can attempt to do things without checking to see if he's got the correct feat or the appropriate skill. Rules aren't exhaustive and constant page flipping during the game session is greatly reduced.

I'm new to C&C myself. This quote pretty much sums up my current understanding of C&C versus D&D. In fact, our RPG group is converting our old AD&D 2E campaign into C&C and one of our more anal members was fretting over the lack of detailed skills & proficiencies. My response was "I think this level of detail is what C&C is trying to avoid." I love the idea of simply rolling against an ability score without worrying if your character is "proficient" in this skill or ability.

As a CK/DM, this makes the gaming session much easier and enjoyable.

[DeadReborn]

Welcome to the Crusade, Norjax!

[Norjax]

Welcome to the Crusade, Norjax!

Thank you! I like what I am seeing with C&C and plan to promote this among my RPG group.

[alcyone]

For my money, the best way to learn the rules is to pick up a screen; most of the rules in one place; they should be familiar enough if you have played Pathfinder. Then skim through the PHB. I'd concentrate on the combat section and then look at how spells work. One thing I did, but I am a dork, is make an outline of all of the combat options. It helped me, but might be overkill.

When learning 3.5 and getting schooled by some of the more, um, enthusiastic players, I even made flash cards. I doubt you'd need them for C&C.

As for the sentiments expressed above in praise of the game, they are all true, but the community here and the Trolls themselves are what keep me coming back. If you can get into one of the skype/maptool/fantasy grounds games online as a player, that will be the best way to see how C&C is actually played, which might be more evolved than what you'd pick up, rules as written.