Questions about awarding experience points

[tylermo]

My players are probably going to finish A0:The Rising Knight during our Monday session. I've already figured monster experience. I have questions about other awards. How do most of you feel about awarding experience for non-magical treasure? What sort of xp value would you assign to The Rising Knight for a story award? Also, the range for roleplaying xp(according to the phb)is 25-250, depending on the level of the character. I assume minimal roleplaying or effort on the part of a pc would be more like 25, and 250 for players who pulled out all the stops? Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Lord Dynel]

This is a highly subjective topic. There are guidelines in the PHB but most people end up doing what they want in this case. In the case of the story, the PHB suggests treating the adventure (as a whole) as a monster with hit dice that would be challenging to the party. The Rising Knight would probably be a 1 HD adventure, thus being worth about 5 (yes, you read that correctly) experience points. You could up that to whatever you want, as long as you're happy with the result. But if you want to add in RP awards, too, I'd keep the "story reward" lower.

As far as any treasure goes, I don't personally give XP for treasure. I just don't feel it makes much sense to becomes more "experienced" from finding a gem-encrusted idol.

What I do, in my games, is give a full share of XP to each party member for monster XP. I didn't use to do this, as I calaulated how much effort each player contributed to the demise of each monster. But sometimes one character is more effective in one fight than another, and this often changes depending on the creature. I give no XP for treasure of any sort, but I give XP for roleplaying. Sometimes this total is more than for monsters. And at the end of the adventure/quest, I do give a story award. It's usually 50-100 XP for low level, rising too about 500 by mid-level, and capping at 1000 or so at higher levels. I gave out 2000 just last evening, but this was after a long, harrowing quest in which the party slogged through a series portal rooms (The Lost Island of Castanamir) in search of a necromancer that had been harrowing them for many levels, and after a battle that drained all their resources and almost killed the whole party (2 of five standing at the end of the battle). But I think that total is one of the highest I'd ever given in a game (yeah, I'm getting soft in my old age ).

[Geleg]

you've got to kill a lot of monsters if you award XP BTB in C&C but don't award xp for treasure, story, or something else. Kobolds and other low level monsters are worth less than 10 xp each!

that said, I am also uneasy about treasure-for-xp. I've tried to work up a system whereby players have to *spend* their money to earn xp, but it's pretty cumbersome and nobody (including me) likes it. I also worked up a different xp for monsters table since IMO the btb C&C system is way too stingy.

as Lord Dynel says, this is a highly subjective topic!

[tylermo]

Yeah. I was more than just on the fence about not giving xp for treasure. Still got the monster xp. I think most of my players are going to get 400-450 a piece for the monster kills. Still mulling over what to do for rp awards. Some players rp'd more than others, but most did a pretty good job. Then, there'll be the 5 each(per Lord Dynel's suggestion)for The Rising Knight. Need to catch up on some sleep this afternoon, but also need to read over Blacktooth Ridge before tonight. I'll have 4 of my 5 players at least.

[tylermo]

I'll have to check out the suggested character levels from Blacktooth and Slag Heap to make sure I'm not being too stingy, by not giving treasure awards. I don't want the party to be under-powered for the upcoming modules.

[CKDad]

Yeah. I was more than just on the fence about not giving xp for treasure. Still got the monster xp. I think most of my players are going to get 400-450 a piece for the monster kills.

Um... how are you getting 400-450 per player for monster kills? BTB (if I'm not mistaken) you sum the total experience given by the monsters and then divide by the number of players. I don't think there's enough monsters in A0 (that can be beaten by level 1 PCs, anyway) to give that much experience per character.

Now, if you're not dividing by the number of characters, that's another story. (And certainly a perfectly fine way to do it, if you prefer.)

Still mulling over what to do for rp awards. Some players rp'd more than others, but most did a pretty good job. Then, there'll be the 5 each(per Lord Dynel's suggestion)for The Rising Knight.

Ultimately, it comes down to "how fast do I want the group to level"? I think Lord D and I come on different sides of the coin; my group meets only twice a month, and has a long hiatus over the summer, so I've beefed up experience awards a bit so the players feel like they're making some progress.

I've also got to work around the players' schedules, and since they're all teens, said schedules aren't totally under their control. So I've come up with a system that seems to work fairly well and rewards player attendance while keeping the group as a whole moving forward.

Here's my system in a nutshell: I work up a total number of "shares" for each session. Each PC whose player attends gets two shares. A PC present for the adventure, but whose player isn't, gets one share. NPC henchmen get one share. I total this number.

I next add up the monster experience by the book, and add in treasure per the M&T figures. This number gets divided by the number of shares, and I award the appropriate amount to each character. Thus, a PC whose player was present gets this number x2, while the NPCs and the PCs whose players were absent get the base number.

Next, I award a set amount to each character for the session, depending on how significant the events of the session were. This is independent of whether the player was there.

Last, I award RP experience, though this also includes players coming up with a cool idea, or doing something outlandish that has the group in stitches, etc. These are individualized, and obviously, the player has to be present to receive such an award.

After about a year, the first members of the group have hit 3rd level, and everyone seems to be happy.

[tylermo]

Well, there was a Lammasu that the party encountered, but didn't fight. I'd have to re-tally things, but I think I added things correctly, then divided by the correct number of players. Somebody sent me Serl's list of pre-figured average monster xp, so I used it.

[Arduin]

Well, there was a Lammasu that the party encountered, but didn't fight.

Did they "defeat" the lammasu or, overcome it in some way? If not, there isn't any XP there.

[gideon_thorne]

Did they "defeat" the lammasu or, overcome it in some way? If not, there isn't any XP there.

Well, this is really up to the CK. If the characters were aware of it, and managed to get around it its perfectly logical to assign the same XP as attacking and killing it would garner.

As for an earlier point about xp for gold, the logic behind this is that it assumes the character has spent the money on 'training' between adventures. Or, at least, that's the logic I always understood.

[Just Jeff]

I go with the "yeah, I think that adventure was worth <insert nice round number here> xp each" method. It let's my gut do the thinking and saves me a lot of fuss on details.

But to each their own. It's all good. (Unless you use the by-the-book Rolemaster method, in which case I will come to your house and swat you on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper, and then tell your children what a bad person you are.)

[tylermo]

More food for thought once again. As for xp expenditure for training, I'll have to check that out. I remember something about training for 6 or 7 weeks to level up, even if you enough experience to do so. Aaaaagggghhhh. So much reading, so little time. My players will be here in under 3 hours, except for one of them. She's dealing with real life at the moment. Anyway, I've got to read part of Blacktooth, as well. Where has the day gone? Keep those ideas coming.

[tylermo]

A friend of mine played Rolemaster with some SCA folks in the late 80's. Always heard about it, but never played. Rest assured, the RM method will not be used here.

[Arduin]

Well, this is really up to the CK. If the characters were aware of it, and managed to get around it its perfectly logical to assign the same XP as attacking and killing it would garner.

That really depends. If the characters are aware of the monsters on the 1st level of a dungeon, teleport directly to the 2nd level and take out some monster and take treasure, I'm not awarding XP for the monsters they were aware of but didn't have to face...

[Geleg]

As for an earlier point about xp for gold, the logic behind this is that it assumes the character has spent the money on 'training' between adventures. Or, at least, that's the logic I always understood.

yup, that's the 'logic' as I've understood it. I also understand it as a metagame way to separate the pcs from their treasure. Of course this leads to a vicious circle: PCs need gold to level, but DMs have to remove the gold or else the economic system is revealed to be pretty wonky.

as for the training part, while it makes some logical sense, my problem with it centers around game flow. Most training rules require weeks of downtime, which can be impossible in a dynamic environment. That is, my games don't often afford that sort of leisure to the characters - or, perhaps, I should say that it is rare that the gaining of a new experience level coincides exactly with a moment in which the PCs can afford to take a month off. "Just wait, we'll get to the boss fight once we've trained up. Nothing will be happening in that interim, right?". At any rate, that's my pet peeve. I know there are lots of ways to work around it .... some are even good! .... but I've yet to find one that works right for me.

[tylermo]

This is getting easier to decide as we go along.

[Frost]

I use monster XP, treasure XP, and story/play XP. I have no problem with treasure for XP. I see it as an abstraction and another way for PCs to "score points." I split the worth amongst the party.

[tylermo]

Now I'm kind of on the fence about treasure xp. Still way behind and the guys are on their way. Trying to bone up on Blacktooth right now.

[dunbruha]

I usually try to have approx 15 game sessions per level. I divide the average amount of xp required for the party to reach the next level by 15 to get the base xp per session. Then after each session, I add up the monster xp, judge how much role-playing occurred, and then adjust the base accordingly. Each player present gets the same amount.

[Just Jeff]

A friend of mine played Rolemaster with some SCA folks in the late 80's. Always heard about it, but never played. Rest assured, the RM method will not be used here.

That's when I dabbled in it. I was introduced to it by some hard-core by-the-book rules lawyers, and even they didn't use the XP system given in the book. It was an accounting process that required excellent record keeping (or handing out XP after each enemy was defeated--each individual enemy, not each group).

I've only heard of a few using the "spend gold for xp" method, but I was in one campaign that went that route. We were stay-hungry adventurers, and it added some nice flavor to the campaign.

[Sir Ironside]

I use monster XP, treasure XP, and story/play XP. I have no problem with treasure for XP. I see it as an abstraction and another way for PCs to "score points." I split the worth amongst the party.

Pretty much me to. Though I'm not of the "school" of equal XP for everyone for anything. Things done as a group (Or, partial group) split up XP evenly but anything done individually I award XP just to that character. (Even if the group is present, such as talking to someone(thing) to achieve a goal.)

[Lord Crimson]

Now I'm kind of on the fence about treasure xp. Still way behind and the guys are on their way. Trying to bone up on Blacktooth right now.

I actually use a system where the PCs get XP from "blown" cash.

If they keep the money to spend on new tools and toys, then no XP.

But if they fritter it away on wine, prostitutes, gambling, charities, churches, ultimately fruitless magical research, or even "training", they get XP. Anything that doesn't result in an actual gain of any kind other than the XP they're getting for the expense. Ultimately, they can call it anything they want, so long as the net result is less gp to play with.

Works really well for my players.

Then if I want to accelerate their leveling on my end, I just "double-dip" on the XP-for-treasure side, by rewarding them for finding loot in the first place, and then rewarding them again if they "blow" it.