New 1st level Illusionist spell

[Arduin]

Here is the text:

[koralas]

Arduin,

I like the spell, though it seems quite powerful for a 1st level spell. Compare it to Darkness which is a blanket 20' radius and lasts 10 mins/level. This spell is a much more focused spell, and allows most of the benefits of having a fire, without the penalties, plus the long duration, much longer than other 1st level spells. Consider Fog Cloud and Obscuring Mist which have similar type goals of keeping things unseen. Changing the duration to 1 hour/level maybe?

Also, consider changing it from the actual piece of flammable material being the focal point, but simply the center of the fire. The effect would be on the fire itself not the combustible. Most campfires must be fed to keep actually burning all night, thus if the effect was on the wood, unless you have one giant hunk of wood, it would burn out long before the spell duration completed. Having it based on the fire itself would allow it to burn as long as the duration lasts. Doing this, you could possibly make a progressive the size of flame that the spell can darken. Something like 3" radius/level to a max of 15", thus-

1st level - 3" - Candle, Oil wick lamp (lantern)
2nd level - 6" - Torch
3rd level - 9" - Small campfire
4th level - 12" - Average campfire
5th level - 15" - Large campfire

You don't really have anything defined as to the effect on objects in the 5' radius (consider changing this to a 5' + 1'/level to max of 10' if using the progressive scale above), so what if the light cast from the fire is a "dark light", meaning objects within the 5' radius of the center are very dimly illuminated, and cannot be seen from outside that radius, unless the ambient light of the night sky so permits. This also means that it will be impossible to read by the light of this fire.

I would drop Wizard from the spell and change it to Illusionist/1 and Druid/1.

Finally, consider changing the name to Shadow Flame to jell with the whole "Shadow" themed spells the Illusionist has access to, and differentiate it from the Darkness spell.

Oh, and for all the CK's out there... While the darkening of the fire may protect you from prying eyes, it dramatically reduces nocturnal predators fear of approaching the campsite.

[Arduin]

Arduin,

I like the spell, though it seems quite powerful for a 1st level spell. Compare it to Darkness which is a blanket 20' radius and lasts 10 mins/level. This spell is a much more focused spell, and allows most of the benefits of having a fire, without the penalties, plus the long duration, much longer than other 1st level spells.

It is less powerful in one aspect than darkness as it only applies to a flame and doesn't hinder a foe's general vision. It is also less powerful than 2nd level invisibility spell which has an effectively unlimited duration (if you don't attack)...

For a camp fire, it would become immobile centered on the piece that started the fire. So, you could feed it. I don't otherwise progress the spell as I wanted it to be only 1st level.

[koralas]

For a camp fire, it would become immobile centered on the piece that started the fire. So, you could feed it. I don't otherwise progress the spell as I wanted it to be only 1st level.

What I meant was the original piece of wood would be consumed well before the spell duration completes, thus the actual effect should focus on the flame not the material.

The progressive spell is improving with the caster leveling up, not becoming a higher level spell.

Looking at it from a different perspective, it is more powerful than a Darkness spell in that it is masking the brightness of the flame, thus allowing the people near it to still see while keeping them hidden from anyone that may be trying to track them, and the duration is exceptionally long for a 1st level spell. Darkness hampers both caster and foes alike, and further has a much shorter duration. Yes, Invisibility is effectively unlimited until an offensive action is taken, but it is also a 2nd level spell, and comes with it's own shortcomings.

But as I said before, I like the spell concept, though I find it more fitting for Illusionists or Druids than Wizards.

[Arduin]

What I meant was the original piece of wood would be consumed well before the spell duration completes, thus the actual effect should focus on the flame not the material.

In reality it just gets reduced. It is still there.

The progressive spell is improving with the caster leveling up, not becoming a higher level spell.

Yes, I know. However, a spell is LESS powerful if it doesn't allow progression. (see historic material on spell creation & determining level)

Looking at it from a different perspective, it is more powerful than a Darkness spell in that it is masking the brightness of the flame, thus allowing the people near it to still see while keeping them hidden from anyone that may be trying to track them, and the duration is exceptionally long for a 1st level spell. Darkness hampers both caster and foes alike, and further has a much shorter duration. Yes, Invisibility is effectively unlimited until an offensive action is taken, but it is also a 2nd level spell, and comes with it's own shortcomings.

Yes but, carrying around a candle that sheds no light is pretty weak. It matters not that someone is inhibited from tracking them. The same inhibition would apply if no candle, that wasn't useful to seeing, was being carried. The only advantage is that one saves a round if they want to light something by not having to use tinder. Like I said, duration is less than a MUCH more powerful 2nd level spell. It is not nearly as powerful as an infinite duration invisibility spell that can be cast on almost any type of item and, is thus a lower level.

But as I said before, I like the spell concept, though I find it more fitting for Illusionists or Druids than Wizards.

I designed it as a 1st level Illusionist spell but, a 2nd level Wizard spell. I thought of it being a druid spell. That would be fitting given the elemental angle to it.

The main benefit of the spell is being able to cook without being seen at night.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The main benefit of the spell is being able to cook without being seen at night.

I was thinking along the same lines from when I read it, and through the comments until I got to this point in the thread. This might be a fun way to play around with things too, such that if you have the irresponsible party that doesn't put their campfires out when they break camp, can wind up with forest fires being caused by this. It'd be a real fun adventure hook.

That being said, since it's something that doesn't exactly serve as an offensive spell, why not drop it do a 1 hr/level duration, and make it a 0-level spell? It seems like more of a cantrip to me than a real spell that a character would have to burn (no pun intended) regular slots on.

[Go0gleplex]

I have to agree with Sir Osis. This does seem like a 0-level spell effect with an exceptionally long duration. In that light, I see no problem with leaving it as 1st level but limiting the duration to 1-hr/ level as suggested. The fact that it has no real effect but to mask normal flame's light can be advantageous but limited by circumstance. I do not see it as being anything remotely resembling a darkness spell or invisibility. As I read this, the lighting conditions prevalent to the area beyond 3-ft of the flames would determine any actual effect on visibility, not the flames themselves.

In short, reducing the duration would make this a handy little spell for clandestine missions such as scouting or infiltration work. Not bad.

[Arduin]

That being said, since it's something that doesn't exactly serve as an offensive spell, why not drop it do a 1 hr/level duration, and make it a 0-level spell? It seems like more of a cantrip to me than a real spell that a character would have to burn (no pun intended) regular slots on.

That would work. I could see it as a 0-level with the 1/hr/level change.

[Lord Dynel]

Looks like an appropriately powered spell. I could see it with Sir Osis's changes, too.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

That being said, since it's something that doesn't exactly serve as an offensive spell, why not drop it do a 1 hr/level duration, and make it a 0-level spell? It seems like more of a cantrip to me than a real spell that a character would have to burn (no pun intended) regular slots on.

That would work. I could see it as a 0-level with the 1/hr/level change.

The flip side of the argument, of course, is that while this would certainly be an important spell to those who adventure at night or in the dark, the general populace of the area in which the fire has been altered is a critical consideration to make. I didn't see anything about the heat effects about the fire. If it dulls both the light and the heat portion, then it's certainly a higher level spell that would merit putting it into a regular spell slot and going without a casting of some other offensive spell (even if illusionists shouldn't be doing much of that). If it's simply dulling the light part of the fire, then at the end of the day, you're just preventing humans from being able to see you at night. So what? Any demi-humans in the party make the spell, for all intents and purposes, useless. The heat signature from the fire will scream out at anybody with low-light vision, or any other such vision. If you're playing an exclusively human campaign, the spell becomes extremely valuable. If not, the creative CK can find many a way to get around the spell.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to marginalize the spell at all, because I actually think it's really cool. I'm just trying to throw out there some ways that it could be warped and manipulated by you, if you're CKing the game in which a player uses the spell, or might be used against you, should you start employing it in games. I'd love to see how it plays out. Nice work.

[zarathustra]

^^^ Except that in C&C PHB none of the low light visions mention heat as a determining factor, just light. Therefore the heat shouldn't be a problem.

For what it is worth I would make it a level 1 spell.

[Arduin]

If it dulls both the light and the heat portion, then it's certainly a higher level spell that would merit putting it into a regular spell slot and going without a casting of some other offensive spell (even if illusionists shouldn't be doing much of that). If it's simply dulling the light part of the fire, then at the end of the day, you're just preventing humans from being able to see you at night. So what? Any demi-humans in the party make the spell, for all intents and purposes, useless.

It is useful for cooking at night while in the wilderness. Not sure what rule you are referring to vis-a-vis C&C, heat, Demi-humans & sight.

It's just a simple, low level utility spell. Although, it is useful in certain circumstances. But, as you and I know, players have ways of figuring out how to make almost anything lethal.

[Arduin]

If it's simply dulling the light part of the fire, then at the end of the day, you're just preventing humans from being able to see you at night. So what? Any demi-humans in the party make the spell, for all intents and purposes, useless. The heat signature from the fire will scream out at anybody with low-light vision, or any other such vision.

???

IR band emissions have nothing to do with low-light or dark vision.