Too easy with hirelings?

[metalman42]

So I just started running A0 the Rising Knight, and everything's going pretty well. I have 3 players of insane variety of experience. One is brand new to RPGs, one has played a ton of 2nd edition, and one has been playing since 1978! The two less experienced players started out alone and quickly recruited the leper to help them track and six of the local farmers as muscle. Now with the third player the party is one halfling rogue, one human knight, one human druid, the leper (who I'm using as a level 0 ranger) and six farmers-turned-militia (level 0 fighters).

I loved the idea of getting the people to help dispatch their gnoll enemy. But they've gone a few rooms into the dungeon and between the ten-man part and the 78 vet's tactics and planning, this dungeon doesn't seem to pose much of a threat. I don't think a single character has been hit so far. I've been using "you go, I go" initiative, and that may take care of some of the problem, but I was wondering what you guys do when your players vastly outnumber the enemy, especially with hired hands.

Also, I'm having an issue doling out experience. The party has conned the locals into splitting one share of the treasure, but how do I split experience? If I divide the XP between the ten of them then the tiny bit each character gets might be too small. This might serve to deter them from hiring bands of helpers in the future, but I don't want to artificially restrict their choices. On another hand, if I give them even close to full XP for encounters made trivially easy by the extra manpower, that's not good either.

[alcyone]

You said it was going pretty well. Are they having fun? You'll get through A0 pretty quick at this rate; maybe you'll make a dent in the Umbrage Saga; eventually they'll meet modules that can challenge them. If it's all because of the hirelings, have the creatures attack them first, split them from the rest, even just scare them. Throw out a charisma check from time to time based on their treatment and and skill level; some of these farmers might drop their pitchforks and run. Your hireling-loving players didn't make Charisma their dump stat, I hope?

Henchman, adherent, and hireling rules are in the CKG, and cover morale checks, payment, and other aspects. As for experience, lots of ways to do it. If it's a character under their control, I generally give them half a share which doesn't come out of the group xp. If it's a full, participating member, a PC in all but name, it gets a full share that comes out of the group xp. The leper can gain a level by the module text, but the farmers, I wouldn't worry about their XP at all; their cost is their inexperience (they scream, they faint, they wet themselves, they fight amongst themselves, they won't take point and they won't stand their ground) and their pay, equipment, and any promised treasure share.

Also, when they hit dungeon level 2, there is at least one room with numbers to challenge them; I'd force a morale check for the farmers right there. Remember that kobolds don't want to just run up and attack; they set traps, they use hit and run tactics; the module won't spell them out so spend some time on those things.

[Lord Dynel]

I agree with Aergraith in this regard. There are ways of seperating the players from their henchmen if you feel they're stealing the thunder of the game with them. Demanding more pay for the dangers they face, morale, dying off, etc. I would, however, give them at least half a share of XP if not a full share. That would be the ultimate deterrant. I'd probably stick with a 1/2 share per hireling, because I wouldn't want to be too unfair. What it boils down to is how many of the hirelings are taking an active part in the battles. If it's all or most, then those would get some share of XP.

Oh, by the way, Welcome to the Crusade, metalman!

[Arduin]

The party has conned the locals into splitting one share of the treasure, but how do I split experience? If I divide the XP between the ten of them then the tiny bit each character gets might be too small. This might serve to deter them from hiring bands of helpers in the future, but I don't want to artificially restrict their choices. On another hand, if I give them even close to full XP for encounters made trivially easy by the extra manpower, that's not good either.

If the hirelings are taking full part in the battles. split it evenly. XP comes from the amount of risk overcome. If they bring in an army to wipe out a few monsters, little risk, little reward. You aren't artificially restricting them. THEY are restricting their experience and growth by letting others take risk and accomplish the deed...

[Relaxo]

If everyone's having fun, that's cool.
If you're afraid the PCs aren't being challenged enough, make sure to kill off a townsfolk, then the others panic... hilarity ensues.*
(this is the "faking it" method if you don't have the CKG, or don't want to halt your game to read a chapter of it).

Another irony is when you get back to town, and the PCs get about 25 XP and the townsfolk level up. That'll show 'em.


*Like the others said, the hirelings will demand more money, or goats, or will flee, or possibly even turn on the PCs. If there are 10 people, it's time to improvise some traps in the dungeon, or add a gnoll, or boost it's HD. WHen the townies start dying, they'll be all, "hey, aren't you mercenaries supposed to fight this fight for us? what are we paying you for?" and all that. (I forget the exact hook of the story)

Aside: I love the image of the 1978 vet's "tactics and Planning", like there's a greenhorn who can't find the d12 in the pile, and dungeon bastard is plotting every move like a chess master... LOL

[MormonYoYoMan]

Steal liberally from Jolly Blackburn's "Knights of the Dinner Table" episodes, where the "Untouchable Trio" abuse their hirelings and pay the penalties. Highly recommended (to see this extrapolated to its logical ending) would be the "Bag Wars" volume. Or, if you don't want to splurge for that, just remember the "Helm of Lordship" episode. When the hireling is sent forward to "test" something for a trap, sometimes it turns out to be an artifact - which only works for the person who picked it up.

[mgtremaine]

In the long run it will even out, bring half the village works great at 1st and 2nd level but as you noticed it will cut down the XP awards and the money thus slowing their progress. Easy adventures in reach will dry up and they will have t face tougher foes, These tougher foes will start to waste the 0 level farmers. Once word gets out hirelings will be less willing to go along. Problem solved.

I couple of house rules I have. 1) hirelings and henchmen only gain 10% XP, that is what ever they would have gain is dived by 10 because they are not the main hero's and without the PC's they would have never achieved the status of "Adventurer". 2) 0-level character need 1,000 xp t become 1st level. (If you apply the rule above you'll see that really means 10,000xp which is not that easy.)

-Mike

Added: Also the first hireling death usually shakes things up a bit and should cause the hirelings to rethink the risk/reward ratio. Especially in the case of farmers who have other goals in live, perhaps the few gold pieces they picked up will be enough for several years to come.

[alcyone]

For reference, D&D Rules Cyclopedia divides experience equally among the group, hireling or not. AD&D DMG suggests the same, but after dividing it, halve it for the hireling. In other words, they progress at half speed, but still take a full share out of the pool. AD&D also suggests extending XP only to those taking an active (however small) part in the slaying.

I get confused in all of these games by hireling, mercenary, adherent, henchman, retainer, etc... Some of them are ways to sell services to the players, some of them are really just for defending your demesne, some will adventure but not do much more than carry a lamp or make maps, and some are full blown adventurers.

[metalman42]

Thanks for all the great advice! I'm considering killing off a few of the farmers. I've really only given one a name, and described on other.

Odon served in an army before moving out east and becoming a farmer, he serves as their spokesperson most of the time. When the PCs decided to give a sack full of silver pieces to the hirelings, Odon gave them a skeptical look to let them know he knew it was a pittance, and then played it up to the other farmers to help with morale.

Kerrick is young and lost his family to the raiders. He idolizes the knight, though it's becoming obvious that the knight is bound by no moral code and is just a mercenary. He's been the butt of most situations, falling into a pit trap on the way to the ruined tower and freaking out at the scary stuff. I don't want to kill him off, cause it seems rude.

They made a great case for the farmers helping when they recruited them, and I felt it would be ridiculous for them not refuse. It's like, "these bandits are plaguing YOUR town, right? Then come help us stop them!" I knew it might end poorly, but how do you say that the farmers won't help?

I'm used to a much less deadly D&D and have never killed a PC, if that helps give you guys a picture of how I work. I don't want everything to be a pushover, I just want to make sure everyone has fun.

[Demiurge]

I'm used to a much less deadly D&D and have never killed a PC, if that helps give you guys a picture of how I work. I don't want everything to be a pushover, I just want to make sure everyone has fun.

I was always a big softie when it came to PC death. But I got to thinking, if there's no consequence for failure, how much of a victory is it? In the last year I've had 8 PC deaths (I run 2 games) including a TPK. All of them were a result of player choices and not CK fiat.

[Arduin]

I was always a big softie when it came to PC death. But I got to thinking, if there's no consequence for failure, how much of a victory is it? In the last year I've had 8 PC deaths (I run 2 games) including a TPK. All of them were a result of player choices and not CK fiat.

I only do the "no death" thing with children. For adults, it is more realistic. I NEVER have killed a PC in >30 of GMing. Players do it on their own, without any help whatsoever from me....

[serleran]

One word:

Dragon.

Two words:

Prysmal Eye.

This same sort of thing can happen in games with several druid players, or even one. I know I gave my Castle Keeper headaches playing my druid, when I started with a giant frog, got a raven, and then traded them in for a cave bear (I had tried a smilodon we encountered, but it made its save, the bastard.)