EV revisions or scrap it?

[Arduin]

There is one last thing: what IS 1EV? Well, based on the RAW, it's the weight of 50 coins (3 lbs., 2 oz.).

In the PHB, a 1 pound loadstone is given an EV of 1. I don't remember where in the PHB it states 50 coins but, seems at odds with each other..

[Traveller]

Look for the thread titled "EV of Coins" to see where I got the number from (hint: it's from cheeplives himself IIRC). In any event, the last paragraph of my previous post obscured my point, which is that ad hoc encumbrance needs to be rewritten to be less confusing if it's going to remain in the game.

[toddaharrah]

My main issue with EV is that, as written, it doesn't match the approach of the rest of the rules. Something consistent with the overall needs to replace it or it should go.

My thoughts exactly. As things now stand, we have a supremely easy-to-grasp and easy-to-GM game system with a far less intuitive encumbrance system. The beauty of the game is marred by this single aspect of it.

Having said that, I would add that this is my first post (Hi everyone!), and I haven't yet DMed C&C. I recently DMed Pathfinder for two years, and frankly, found myself dreading planning for it as a direct result of all its niggling detail. More recently, I've enjoyed the freedom of Savage Worlds tremendously, but hope to get to the DnD-esque feel of C&C if I can so persuade my group.

[cheeplives]

There is one last thing: what IS 1EV?

Actually, 1 EV is pretty much coded in the Ad Hoc stuff: it is a 1'x1'x1' cube of matter between 6lbs and 24lbs of static form.

And we determine how many coins fit in a Chest by it's capacity... if it has Capacity of 10, then it carries 10 EV of coins... and if 50 coins = 1 EV it's around 500 coins..

Beyond that, I'm still not 100% sure I follow all the complaints with the "off-putting" wording, but I pasted the EXACT text above.. please point it out and we'll fix it.

If the Troll Lords want to dump it, I don't have a problem with it... I just tried to create something that had small numbers, quick math, and the ability to build EVs on the fly if need be off of a simple formula.

Another option would be to go the "Slots Method"

Each character has a number of Inventory Slots equal to their Strength Statistic. Characters with Strength or Constitution Prime gain +1 slot for either prime (and this +1 Slot Stacks). Slots are classified as either "Readied" or "Stowed". Items in Readied Slots can be used at any time by the character as a Free Action. Items in Stowed Slots require an action to recover and/or ready before they can be used. A character has a number of "Readied" slots equal to 1/2 of their Strength Score (rounding normally). Any bonus Slots granted from Primes are considered to be "Readied" Slots. If the player wishes, the character can carry more items than they have Slots, but doing so will make the character "Burdened" . A character that is Burdened gains a +3 to all Dexterity Challenge Levels, loses any Dexterity Bonus to their AC, and reduces their speed by 10ft/rnd (to a minimum of 5 ft/rnd). A character has a maximum number of Inventory Slots equal to six plus their base number of Slots (e.g. Memnon has a base Inventory of 7 Slots, so he cannot carry more than 13 Slots worth of Inventory). This maximum number of Slots doesn't apply to Capacity items, only items in the character's actual Inventory. Most items take up 1 Slot but the Castle Keeper may rule that larger or bulkier items may take 2 or more Slots. A single Slot is also equivalent to about 150 mixed coins.
This means that Memnon, with a STR of 7 and Strength as a Prime, has 8 Slots (STR of 7 +1 for Strength Prime) of which 5 are considered "Readied" (1/2 STR of 7 = 3.5, rounded up to 4 +1 for having Strength as a Prime) . All other Slots are considered to be "Stowed" items.
Capacity items, like backpacks, sacks, or chests, have their own Slots which can be filled independently of the character's Slots; thus only the Capacity item would appear in the character's Inventory while the items contained within would be listed separately.
Example: Memnon, STR 7, Strength Prime
Inventory
Slot 1 (R): Mace
Slot 2 (R): Shield
Slot 3 (R): Light Crossbow
Slot 4 (R): Quiver (2/2 Slots: 24 Bolts/2)
Slot 5 (R): Pouch (2/2 Slots: Potion of Cure Light Wounds/1, Potion of Flight/1)
Slot 6: Pouch (1/2 Slots: 150 Coins/1)
Slot 7: 10 Foot Pole
Slot 8: 10 Foot Pole
-- Any items in the following slots makes the character Burdened
Slot 9: Backpack (4/8 Slots: Rope/1, 2 Torches/1, Nailsx50/1, Bedroll/1)
Slot 10:
Slot 11:
Slot 12:
Slot 13:

Memnon is Burdened in this example. If he drops his pack or pole, then he would be unburdened. Dropping any item is a Free Action unless it is in a Capacity item. Dropping any items from a Capacity item requires an Action.

Characters also gain the following "Specialized" Slots. Specialized Slots can carry specific pieces of gear. These items are always considered "Readied". If the character wishes to carry/wear a Specialized item but is out of Specialized Slots, then it must go into a normal Slot. Remember: only "Readied" items can be used in a given round.
1 Armor Slot
1 Headgear Slot
4 Jewelry Slots (rings, necklaces, periapts, brooches, etc.)
1 Other Slot (belt, baldric, bracers, etc.)

Something like that would be relatively quick, in my opinion, while keeping things "realistic". We'd need to throw in some rules for Armor Encumbrance, then, too..

[tylermo]

Another Savage Worlds/C&C player! Savage Worlds does a lot of things very well. I even enjoy fantasy through that system. That said, I also like having the old school fantasy feel. C&C does that very well, without all of the clunk. With regards to EV, it seems there are no easy answers. Bare minimum, it seems the existing system needs clarifications and slight revision. I sent the link to this discussion, and have heard it's being looked into.

[Sir Ironside]

Slot 7: 10 Foot Pole
Slot 8: 10 Foot Pole

That brought a tear to my eye.

[Newenglandjeff]

The did'nt want to get too far in the bush on this thread, but since we are all throwing in alternative systems....

I use the encumberance RAW as the backbone. Instead of the belts and pouches, I have my players set up their load bearing harness. I allow any combination of pouches and scabbards that add up to a capacity of 5. Scabbards can only hold the weapon that they are designed for. The capacity of a scabbard is equal to the EV of the weapon it is designed to hold. The load bearing rules apply. For example, a long sword (EV3) stowed in it's scabbard has an EV of 1. Anything can be drawn or stowed in the LBH (load bearing harness) within a combat round. In order to stow or draw an item, I require a declaration prior to the initiative rolls. I apply a -2 to the initiative roll per action. For example, a player wants to throw a throwing knife at a retreating goblin. He declares at the begining of the round that he will stow his short sword in it's scabbard, and draw his throwing knife. He takes a -4 penalty to his initiative roll. -2 for stowing and -2 for drawing. If the player simply drops his held weapon, I allow him to avoid the -2 stowing penalty. Of course, he assumes the danger of leaving a valuable item on the ground if he decides to retreat. The player effectively stows or draws when his turn comes up in the initiative order. If a player declares he will drop his torch and draw his shield, he does not get the shield bonus until his turn in the initiative order.
If a player needs to get something out of a backpack, it requires an entire round.

I have special designed character sheets, and player handouts that tie it all together. I don't expect the Trolls to adopt my system. I'm just illustrating that every table is going to have a different style. Some tables are going to be fast and loose, because they want the GM to weave an illustrious tale rules be damned. My guys, on the other hand, are numbers guys. They want clearly defined parameters to work with.
I hope the trolls don't scrap the system. I think it works as a starting point, it just needs some clarification and rewording.

[Traveller]

There is one last thing: what IS 1EV?

Actually, 1 EV is pretty much coded in the Ad Hoc stuff: it is a 1'x1'x1' cube of matter between 6lbs and 24lbs of static form.

And we determine how many coins fit in a Chest by it's capacity... if it has Capacity of 10, then it carries 10 EV of coins... and if 50 coins = 1 EV it's around 500 coins.

"Pretty much coded" and "explicitly stated" are two different things. The rules need a sentence or two added explaining just what an EV of 1 actually is. This would eliminate my "real world measurement" argument because it would allow the CK to properly measure the carrying capacity of a horse until carrying capacities are revised in M&T to match the PHB. Horses in C&C have their carrying capacity stated in pounds rather than EV thus leading to the question that has already been asked on the forum: what is the EV of a horse?

Note to all: To make it clear, the fact EV is not in M&T is through no fault of cheeplives. However, if his system is to remain the lingua franca for encumbrance in the game all things in M&T will have to have it, such as beasts of burden and especially those pesky magic items.